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Post by Bish on Apr 13, 2017 17:42:04 GMT -4
Should have let us change our votes! I don't get the votes for Kawhi or LeBron. It's gotta be either Harden or Westbrook.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Apr 13, 2017 17:43:27 GMT -4
so, generalizing a bit, it appears the basketblognerds are picking Kawhi (e.g., Lowe), the national pundits are picking Westbrook and the local beat writers are going mostly for Harden. My biggest beef with the Westbrook arguments are that his team would be shit without him. Before the season, ESPN ranked like the top 200 NBA players in some stupid #NBArank thing. For example, they had Westbrook as the 5th best player and Harden as the 8th best player in the NBA. Here are their rankings of all Thunder and Rocket players in the top 200: Thunder: 36. Adams 48. Oladipo 80. Kanter 96. Gibson 158. Roberson 190. McDermott Rockets: 86. Gordon 89. Anderson 92. Capela 99. Ariza 160. Beverley 198. Williams So, before the season, the thunder role players had 3 guys ranked above any of the Rocket role players. Westbrook might be the MVP, but the argument that the Thunder have a worse supporting cast than the Rockets is a garbage argument. If anything, Westbrook's selfish play made them play below expectations and Harden's selfless play had his players play above their norm. Better players doesn't mean much if the fit isn't there. Dwight is easily a better player than Ryan Anderson but Anderson fits our style of play way more. Westbrook has better bangers down low on the glass and in the post but that's it. They don't have a great offensive system. Oladipo should have never been ranked that high, he's not that good and having an inferior season to Eric Gordon.
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Post by phdsims on Apr 13, 2017 17:45:35 GMT -4
Should have let us change our votes! I don't get the votes for Kawhi or LeBron. It's gotta be either Harden or Westbrook. Can you not change your vote? I can. Is that because I'm an admin?
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Post by Bish on Apr 13, 2017 18:17:48 GMT -4
Oh, that's weird. I had to "unvote" and then I could "revote". Maybe they changed the way polls work here recently. It didn't used to be that way in the HOF polls, but maybe I haven't tried it for a while.
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Post by bnabreaker on Apr 13, 2017 18:17:50 GMT -4
I cant stand the little prick as a person, but i dont see how you could vote for anyone but Westbrook this year.
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Post by rogworld1991 on Apr 13, 2017 18:33:05 GMT -4
Harden's numbers are just as arbitrarily historic as Westbrooks are, "triple double" is just easily rounded. Harden's team had more wins, which we can debate the merit of in this conversation, but both were historically good offensively and pretty equally as meh defensively, how do you separate that other wins? I think its pretty hard to differentiate the two, but Harden gets my vote due to the team performance, even still.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Apr 13, 2017 18:35:19 GMT -4
I cant stand the little prick as a person, but i dont see how you could vote for anyone but Westbrook this year. Lol how can you hate Russell
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Post by phdsims on Apr 13, 2017 18:43:12 GMT -4
so, generalizing a bit, it appears the basketblognerds are picking Kawhi (e.g., Lowe), the national pundits are picking Westbrook and the local beat writers are going mostly for Harden. My biggest beef with the Westbrook arguments are that his team would be shit without him. Before the season, ESPN ranked like the top 200 NBA players in some stupid #NBArank thing. For example, they had Westbrook as the 5th best player and Harden as the 8th best player in the NBA. Here are their rankings of all Thunder and Rocket players in the top 200: Thunder: 36. Adams 48. Oladipo 80. Kanter 96. Gibson 158. Roberson 190. McDermott Rockets: 86. Gordon 89. Anderson 92. Capela 99. Ariza 160. Beverley 198. Williams So, before the season, the thunder role players had 3 guys ranked above any of the Rocket role players. Westbrook might be the MVP, but the argument that the Thunder have a worse supporting cast than the Rockets is a garbage argument. If anything, Westbrook's selfish play made them play below expectations and Harden's selfless play had his players play above their norm. Better players doesn't mean much if the fit isn't there. Dwight is easily a better player than Ryan Anderson but Anderson fits our style of play way more. Westbrook has better bangers down low on the glass and in the post but that's it. They don't have a great offensive system. Oladipo should have never been ranked that high, he's not that good and having an inferior season to Eric Gordon. I think the fair way to describe the thunder and rocket supporting cast is: The Thunder players have a better pedigree. Their strength is in defense and rebounding and athleticism. Weak in shooting. The Rockets players have fit the system well and have shown to have total value more than sum of their parts. Their strength is in shooting. Weak in rebounding, defense and athleticism. If you took the top 10 teams and then removed the best player, the Rockets and Thunder would be the worst teams in that group. My argument is that the statement of "Westbrook has a inferior supporting cast compared to Harden" is wrong. But I am NOT arguing for the opposite. Instead, the answer is that both players have a supporting cast worst than most of the other contenders. Remove any of the star Warriors and that team is still elite. Remove LeBron and that team is still good. Remove IT and the Celtics are still good. Remove Kawhi and Pop would have the Spurs at 50 wins. Remove Harden or Westbrook and both teams are crap.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Apr 13, 2017 18:54:25 GMT -4
Doesn't MDA being the Coach of the year factor in too? We had Harden with Dwight Howard last year and did horrible. You can't say MDA isn't a huge factor in our turnaround.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Apr 13, 2017 18:55:33 GMT -4
Better players doesn't mean much if the fit isn't there. Dwight is easily a better player than Ryan Anderson but Anderson fits our style of play way more. Westbrook has better bangers down low on the glass and in the post but that's it. They don't have a great offensive system. Oladipo should have never been ranked that high, he's not that good and having an inferior season to Eric Gordon. I think the fair way to describe the thunder and rocket supporting cast is: The Thunder players have a better pedigree. Their strength is in defense and rebounding and athleticism. Weak in shooting. The Rockets players have fit the system well and have shown to have total value more than sum of their parts. Their strength is in shooting. Weak in rebounding, defense and athleticism. If you took the top 10 teams and then removed the best player, the Rockets and Thunder would be the worst teams in that group. My argument is that the statement of "Westbrook has a inferior supporting cast compared to Harden" is wrong. But I am NOT arguing for the opposite. Instead, the answer is that both players have a supporting cast worst than most of the other contenders. Remove any of the star Warriors and that team is still elite. Remove LeBron and that team is still good. Remove IT and the Celtics are still good. Remove Kawhi and Pop would have the Spurs at 50 wins. Remove Harden or Westbrook and both teams are crap. Someone should create a playoff poll BTW. I'm interested in how yall see each series going
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Post by phdsims on Apr 13, 2017 19:04:05 GMT -4
Doesn't MDA being the Coach of the year factor in too? We had Harden with Dwight Howard last year and did horrible. You can't say MDA isn't a huge factor in our turnaround. harden is making MDA's system work. MDA was a terrible coach for Knicks and lakers. Thunder could have hired MDA. They choose to hire Donavan. Both guys are acceptable MVP's. I'm cool with either winning or them going Peyton and McNair and doing co-MVP's. I might think harden should get it over Westbrook. But both are correct answers. What isn't a correct argument is that thunder players are butt and rocket players are awesome. That is an incorrect opinion.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Apr 13, 2017 19:21:13 GMT -4
MDA is an amazing coach.
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Post by rogworld1991 on Apr 13, 2017 19:22:33 GMT -4
MDA was awful for the Lakers. It was baaaaaad.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Apr 13, 2017 19:41:10 GMT -4
MDA was awful for the Lakers. It was baaaaaad. He didn't even run his system there
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Post by Mogwai Mode on Apr 13, 2017 20:09:01 GMT -4
Didn't see this but as someone who loathes the NBA but still plays Fantasy Basketball, Westbrook is the only answer here. He carried two of my teams to a title and he's singlehandedly carried his team to the playoffs.
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