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Post by politicianspock on Aug 10, 2007 17:32:48 GMT -4
So you're of the opinion: If I don't know about it, it didn't happen - and doesn't matter. No, I'm of the opinion that if I don't know enough to form an opinion, then my opinion doesn't matter. If all I know is people are accusing someone of using greenies or amphetamines, is that really enough to form an opinion? But if beyond the accusations I have information such as stats, pitcures, observations of behavior, etc... then I'm more informed to have an opinion that matters. As for knowing enough about Bonds for my opinion to matter, I believe that I, as well as the rest of the populace, have seen enough for our opinions to matter. We can see the spike in the stats. We can see the change in his body and face. We can see how he's reacted to the accusation. We can see people going to jail in lieu of testifying what they know. It's an overwhelming amount of information. In the court of public opinion, the evidence speaks for itself, and that's why public opinion matters. Nobody is turning a blind eye to players who cheat. When people see they are cheating, they get called out. When a ball looks doctored, they inspect the pitchers glove. They'll go so far to have them empty their pockets (a la Phil Niekro). Heck, George Brett got called out for cheating after he hit a homerun. Do you really think the pine tar being too high on the bat really had anything to do with hitting that home run? Players have even been punished for substance abuse off the field. When a player taints the game, they called out on it. They get investigated. The fact that the investigation hasn't turned up a positive test on Bonds in my opinion puts him in the same class as OJ Simpson. He's getting away with "murder". That's because it can only be answered by a person that believes the use of amphetamines is just fine. If no one answers it, it's probably because such a person doesn't exist. Which would be clear and obvious proof that you're throwing out a strawman argument.
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charliesarmy
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Post by charliesarmy on Aug 10, 2007 18:35:51 GMT -4
You are the one who is all-knowing it seems. You know exactly who did, and who didn't do steroids during the era. Personally. I don't have any idea who did, and who didn't. It's pretty clear that a few guys did, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to hate them more than the rest of the players just because they were the best of the bunch. The entire game of baseball had people "disgracing" it through steroids in the 90's and early 2000's. It has also been "disgraced" by the use of amphetamines. Also by the use of spitballs. Also by the use of corked bats. Also by the use of stealing signs. Also by the use of sandpaper. Cheating is a part of baseball, whether or not you want to admit it. People have been cheating in baseball since the 1800's. If you disregard one player for taking performance enhancing drugs then you have to disregard the entire era. If you disregard the entire era for using performance enhancing drugs then you have to disregard the prior eras as well for the use of greenies, spitballs, sandpaper, and stealing signs. Or you can be narrow-minded, and just dislike those who the media tells you to dislike. you are cracking me up......I am now narrow minded and all knowing.... simple question... do you 'think' Barry Bonds took steroids? I do like your logic....it is ok to cheat because everyone else does...I should let you raise my kids
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2007 18:37:54 GMT -4
Hank Aaron admitted to using greenies in his autobiography.
Many of Babe Ruth's homers would have been ground rule doubles if the rule existed
Willie Mays used "red juice" the same thing as greenies, but in liquid form.
Sammy Sosa obviously roided.
That makes Ken Griffey Jr the player with the most home runs without performance enhancing drugs or wacko rules of the 1920's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2007 18:47:59 GMT -4
You are the one who is all-knowing it seems. You know exactly who did, and who didn't do steroids during the era. Personally. I don't have any idea who did, and who didn't. It's pretty clear that a few guys did, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to hate them more than the rest of the players just because they were the best of the bunch. The entire game of baseball had people "disgracing" it through steroids in the 90's and early 2000's. It has also been "disgraced" by the use of amphetamines. Also by the use of spitballs. Also by the use of corked bats. Also by the use of stealing signs. Also by the use of sandpaper. Cheating is a part of baseball, whether or not you want to admit it. People have been cheating in baseball since the 1800's. If you disregard one player for taking performance enhancing drugs then you have to disregard the entire era. If you disregard the entire era for using performance enhancing drugs then you have to disregard the prior eras as well for the use of greenies, spitballs, sandpaper, and stealing signs. Or you can be narrow-minded, and just dislike those who the media tells you to dislike. you are cracking me up......I am now narrow minded and all knowing.... simple question... do you 'think' Barry Bonds took steroids? I do like your logic....it is ok to cheat because everyone else does...I should let you raise my kids Stop treating MLB players as if they are your kids. They aren't kids. They are grown men getting paid millions of dollars to do anything in their power to win baseball games. If that means taking amphetamines to get alert for 162 a year then so be it. If it means taking steroids to prevent your body from breaking down in your late 30's then so be it. If it means stealing signs, throwing spitballs, using sandpaper, etc then so be it. If there is no effort to prevent players from doing something, then they better damn well be doing EVERYTHING they can to win baseball games. That's what they're paid for.
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Post by chang on Aug 10, 2007 19:00:15 GMT -4
Hank Aaron admitted to using greenies in his autobiography. Can't find that quote or mention of that anywhere. Maybe you'll have more luck.Many of Babe Ruth's homers would have been ground rule doubles if the rule existed Bonds plays in smaller stadiums than back in the day. If we're going to compare Bonds and Ruth, we'd have to use similar stadiums and therefore deduct from Bonds as well. Either way, there's little visual proof.Willie Mays used "red juice" the same thing as greenies, but in liquid form. If this is true, which it hasn't been proven, I guess Bonds learned about drugs from his godfather. Would be a shame if it's true.Sammy Sosa obviously roided. No questioning that one. He also got caught using a corked bat.That makes Ken Griffey Jr the player with the most home runs without performance enhancing drugs or wacko rules of the 1920's. I wouldn't say Griffey didn't take any type of drug that made him recover faster or what not cause he was always injured. Probably something like HGH but legally.Well, I guess those San Franciscans love their drugged up athletes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2007 19:09:34 GMT -4
LMAO at your comment about Bonds playing in a smaller stadium than Ruth. Have you checked the dimensions of old yankee stadium? Have you ever seen a game at ATT park?
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Post by chang on Aug 10, 2007 19:13:14 GMT -4
you are cracking me up......I am now narrow minded and all knowing.... simple question... do you 'think' Barry Bonds took steroids? I do like your logic....it is ok to cheat because everyone else does...I should let you raise my kids Stop treating MLB players as if they are your kids. They aren't kids. They are grown men getting paid millions of dollars to do anything in their power to win baseball games. If that means taking amphetamines to get alert for 162 a year then so be it. If it means taking steroids to prevent your body from breaking down in your late 30's then so be it. If it means stealing signs, throwing spitballs, using sandpaper, etc then so be it. If there is no effort to prevent players from doing something, then they better damn well be doing EVERYTHING they can to win baseball games. That's what they're paid for. I don't understand how you can condone bad things on a mass scale as long as you get paid or benefit from it somehow. Do you support hired hits, rapes, thefts, embezzlement, tax evasion as well?
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Post by chang on Aug 10, 2007 19:21:07 GMT -4
The Yankee stadium Ruth played in is the same one he played in now. He was a pitcher before Yankee Stadium was built. Yankee Stadium in 1937. Notice 461 ft wall in centerfield. It's only 408 now. The longest in the majors now is now 436.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2007 19:21:25 GMT -4
Umm, all of those things you mentioned have a negative effect on others; other than tax evasion - and yes, I do support mass tax evasion.
They are getting paid to play a game. You are a moron if you don't see the difference between cheating while playing a game and murdering or raping someone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2007 19:23:10 GMT -4
The Yankee stadium Ruth played in is the same one he played in now. He was a pitcher before Yankee Stadium was built. Yankee Stadium in 1937. Notice 461 ft wall in centerfield. It's only 408 now. The longest in the majors now is now 436. 296 down the right field line. That's one of the easiest parks for a lefty to hit it out of in the history of baseball parks. Especially when you consider that ground rule doubles were considered homers back then. Bonds plays in one of the hardest parks for a lefty to hit it out of in the history of baseball.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2007 19:24:17 GMT -4
BTW, it's 315 down the lines in yankee stadium now. a 20 foot difference.
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charliesarmy
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Post by charliesarmy on Aug 10, 2007 19:41:36 GMT -4
you are cracking me up......I am now narrow minded and all knowing.... simple question... do you 'think' Barry Bonds took steroids? I do like your logic....it is ok to cheat because everyone else does...I should let you raise my kids Stop treating MLB players as if they are your kids. They aren't kids. They are grown men getting paid millions of dollars to do anything in their power to win baseball games. If that means taking amphetamines to get alert for 162 a year then so be it. If it means taking steroids to prevent your body from breaking down in your late 30's then so be it. If it means stealing signs, throwing spitballs, using sandpaper, etc then so be it. If there is no effort to prevent players from doing something, then they better damn well be doing EVERYTHING they can to win baseball games. That's what they're paid for. And you dont have the balls to answer my question....You do make a good Bonds fan....
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Post by Seattle Slough on Aug 10, 2007 19:42:23 GMT -4
By the way Ichiro is the best baseball player ever, and I would someone to accuse him of roiding,lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2007 19:51:06 GMT -4
Stop treating MLB players as if they are your kids. They aren't kids. They are grown men getting paid millions of dollars to do anything in their power to win baseball games. If that means taking amphetamines to get alert for 162 a year then so be it. If it means taking steroids to prevent your body from breaking down in your late 30's then so be it. If it means stealing signs, throwing spitballs, using sandpaper, etc then so be it. If there is no effort to prevent players from doing something, then they better damn well be doing EVERYTHING they can to win baseball games. That's what they're paid for. And you dont have the balls to answer my question....You do make a good Bonds fan.... I've answered your question several times. I think it's obvious that Bonds used performance enhancing drugs of some kind - he's even admitted to unknowingly using them. Anyone who doesn't think Bonds used steroids either doesn't follow baseball, or has his head up his ass.
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Post by politicianspock on Aug 10, 2007 19:54:01 GMT -4
If you're going to use Aaron's autobiography, then site what he said correctly. He said he tried greenies "one time". I hardly classify that in the same class of abuse that Bonds did with steroids.
Gotta love it when the only way to make your guy look good is to bring other people down at any expense.
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