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Post by Kobe Dominates! on Jul 4, 2009 13:02:38 GMT -4
sorry but Bynum, Gasol, Artest, kobe, and fisher is better than sheed, duncan, jefferson, manu, parker. Duncan and Sheed are both not who they were. Ginobli is coming off surgery, and Jefferson is a solid player but isn't a top ten sf. Um, how does 19.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, and almost 40 percent from three last year not make him a top ten small forward? Lol. Nah, that starting five is definitely better than the Lakers starting five, I think Artest is being overrated to a large extent myself, he's lost a lot of quickness defensively, funny how you guys are making comments like "they're old", Artest is no young gun himself, not to mention there's a lot of questions as to if he can fit in the triangle offense and live with being the third option, as opposed to being the first or second option like he was in Houston during these previous playoffs. Plus, he's literally insane, but that's a given. Which SF among these ten is Jefferson better than? LeBron James Carmelo Anthony Andre Iguodala Kevin Durant Danny Granger Josh Howard Hedo Turkoglu Gerald Wallace Paul Pierce Rudy Gay or Caron Butler or Ron Artest or Tayshaun Prince
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Post by Dan on Jul 4, 2009 13:43:46 GMT -4
Um, how does 19.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, and almost 40 percent from three last year not make him a top ten small forward? Lol. Nah, that starting five is definitely better than the Lakers starting five, I think Artest is being overrated to a large extent myself, he's lost a lot of quickness defensively, funny how you guys are making comments like "they're old", Artest is no young gun himself, not to mention there's a lot of questions as to if he can fit in the triangle offense and live with being the third option, as opposed to being the first or second option like he was in Houston during these previous playoffs. Plus, he's literally insane, but that's a given. Which SF among these ten is Jefferson better than? LeBron James Carmelo Anthony Andre Iguodala Kevin Durant Danny Granger Josh Howard Hedo Turkoglu Gerald Wallace Paul Pierce Rudy Gay or Caron Butler or Ron Artest or Tayshaun Prince Uhhh you could make a case better than Gerald Wallace, he averaged 3 more points than him, although 3 rebounds less, but shot 40 percent from outside to Wallace's 30 percent. His stats are also better than Turkoglu's, believe it or not, and Howard's, and Artest's, and Prince's. So if my math serves me right, that puts him in the bottom half of the top ten, going from a statistical standpoint at least. RJ is one of the better three point shooting small forwards in the league, that's going to help the Spurs out a lot since Mason did a lot of the chucking last year.
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Post by Kobe Dominates! on Jul 4, 2009 14:01:52 GMT -4
Which SF among these ten is Jefferson better than? LeBron James Carmelo Anthony Andre Iguodala Kevin Durant Danny Granger Josh Howard Hedo Turkoglu Gerald Wallace Paul Pierce Rudy Gay or Caron Butler or Ron Artest or Tayshaun Prince Uhhh you could make a case better than Gerald Wallace, he averaged 3 more points than him, although 3 rebounds less, but shot 40 percent from outside to Wallace's 30 percent. His stats are also better than Turkoglu's, believe it or not, and Howard's, and Artest's, and Prince's. So if my math serves me right, that puts him in the bottom half of the top ten, going from a statistical standpoint at least. RJ is one of the better three point shooting small forwards in the league, that's going to help the Spurs out a lot since Mason did a lot of the chucking last year. I asked who he is he a better player than not who did he score more points than last year. Better player includes defense by the way.
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Post by Dan on Jul 4, 2009 14:12:33 GMT -4
Uhhh you could make a case better than Gerald Wallace, he averaged 3 more points than him, although 3 rebounds less, but shot 40 percent from outside to Wallace's 30 percent. His stats are also better than Turkoglu's, believe it or not, and Howard's, and Artest's, and Prince's. So if my math serves me right, that puts him in the bottom half of the top ten, going from a statistical standpoint at least. RJ is one of the better three point shooting small forwards in the league, that's going to help the Spurs out a lot since Mason did a lot of the chucking last year. I asked who he is he a better player than not who did he score more points than last year. Better player includes defense by the way. And, as said, going from a statistical standpoint, I'd take Jefferson. If you read, I also factored in rebounds and three point percentage, not just points per game. Are you implying Jefferson isn't a good defensive player? I always thought he was pretty good, not great, but definitely above average. Plus, he started all 82 games for the Bucks last season and all 82 games for the Nets the previous season, that's pretty darn good. To me, he's definitely a top ten small forward, from a statistical standpoint that's proven, plus in my opinion, he definitely fits in that category.
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Post by bnabreaker on Jul 4, 2009 14:32:55 GMT -4
Do the Memphis fans here want Iverson? If he agrees to a reasonable salary ($5.5 mil or less I'd say) and is okay with coming off the bench to back up Conley and Mayo, then I'd say I absolutely want him. If he will be a selfish little bitch about it and demand 25 shots a game, then hell no. The last thing the Grizzlies need is someone stunting the development of their young core in exchange for a couple average seasons.
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Post by Kobe Dominates! on Jul 4, 2009 14:34:45 GMT -4
I asked who he is he a better player than not who did he score more points than last year. Better player includes defense by the way. And, as said, going from a statistical standpoint, I'd take Jefferson. If you read, I also factored in rebounds and three point percentage, not just points per game. Are you implying Jefferson isn't a good defensive player? I always thought he was pretty good, not great, but definitely above average. Plus, he started all 82 games for the Bucks last season and all 82 games for the Nets the previous season, that's pretty darn good. To me, he's definitely a top ten small forward, from a statistical standpoint that's proven, plus in my opinion, he definitely fits in that category. Well lets start here... these five are clearly better than Richard Jefferson LeBron James Carmelo Anthony Andre Iguodala Kevin Durant Danny Granger If you can't concede that then I don't want to even waste my time on this subject anymore. If you want to rate them purely statistically the John Hollinger's PER stat basically combines every box score stat that you can find and adjusts them for pace. Caron Butler, Gerald Wallace, Paul Pierce, Josh Howard and Ron Artest all had higher PER ratings than Richard Jefferson last year. Stephen Jackson, Marvin Williams, Corey Maggete, John Salmons and Trevor Ariza also had higher PER ratings than Richard Jefferson last year. My rough look at the top 15 was based more so on my eyes instead of their stat sheet. PER will always underrate the defensive toughness that Ron Artest and Tayshaun Prince bring to the floor.
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Post by Dan on Jul 4, 2009 14:55:16 GMT -4
And, as said, going from a statistical standpoint, I'd take Jefferson. If you read, I also factored in rebounds and three point percentage, not just points per game. Are you implying Jefferson isn't a good defensive player? I always thought he was pretty good, not great, but definitely above average. Plus, he started all 82 games for the Bucks last season and all 82 games for the Nets the previous season, that's pretty darn good. To me, he's definitely a top ten small forward, from a statistical standpoint that's proven, plus in my opinion, he definitely fits in that category. Well lets start here... these five are clearly better than Richard Jefferson LeBron James Carmelo Anthony Andre Iguodala Kevin Durant Danny Granger If you can't concede that then I don't want to even waste my time on this subject anymore. If you want to rate them purely statistically the John Hollinger's PER stat basically combines every box score stat that you can find and adjusts them for pace. Caron Butler, Gerald Wallace, Paul Pierce, Josh Howard and Ron Artest all had higher PER ratings than Richard Jefferson last year. Stephen Jackson, Marvin Williams, Corey Maggete, John Salmons and Trevor Ariza also had higher PER ratings than Richard Jefferson last year. My rough look at the top 15 was based more so on my eyes instead of their stat sheet. PER will always underrate the defensive toughness that Ron Artest and Tayshaun Prince bring to the floor. Ahahaha this is funny to me. Yeah of course those five are better than Jefferson, all I said was in my mind and from the stats I looked at he's a top ten small forward. Simple as that.
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Post by Beast Mode (lilsims) on Jul 4, 2009 16:15:18 GMT -4
sorry but Bynum, Gasol, Artest, kobe, and fisher is better than sheed, duncan, jefferson, manu, parker. Duncan and Sheed are both not who they were. Ginobli is coming off surgery, and Jefferson is a solid player but isn't a top ten sf. Um, how does 19.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, and almost 40 percent from three last year not make him a top ten small forward? Lol. Nah, that starting five is definitely better than the Lakers starting five, I think Artest is being overrated to a large extent myself, he's lost a lot of quickness defensively, funny how you guys are making comments like "they're old", Artest is no young gun himself, not to mention there's a lot of questions as to if he can fit in the triangle offense and live with being the third option, as opposed to being the first or second option like he was in Houston during these previous playoffs. Plus, he's literally insane, but that's a given. LOL. First off Ron Artest is 30, and Sheed is 35. How in the world is Artest old? Kobe is the same age, so is Kobe Old? Tim Duncan is 34, thats still 4 years older than Artest. So how aren't the Spurs front court guys old if they add Sheed? As for Jefferson. You have to remember all of his stats were done this season with 3 of the teams leading scorers from last season being traded for nothing, or injured for more than half the season. So Charlie V, Sessions, and Jeffersons numbers were inflated due to the fact that nobody else on the floor was going to score. You could put half of the starting SF's in the league in that situation and they would get numbers. Hell I'd be willing to bet Mike Miller could get numbers in that system. There was no number 1 guy, just a bunch of guys with a green light to shoot and if they missed it didn't matter because the best reserve is Bobby Simmons. Artest is in the middle of his prime, and if he keeps his act straight he will be the steal of the FA for the next 3 seasons. Ron is happy, he's playing in a city where he wants to be. He doesn't want to be anywhere else besides New York. So I imagin that he will be on his best behavior, because he wants to play for the Lakers and loves the city. He like the Kings, but hated Sacramento. He loved the Rockets, but didn't love Houston. He loves the Lakers, and loves LA even more.
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Post by Dan on Jul 4, 2009 16:31:16 GMT -4
Um, how does 19.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, and almost 40 percent from three last year not make him a top ten small forward? Lol. Nah, that starting five is definitely better than the Lakers starting five, I think Artest is being overrated to a large extent myself, he's lost a lot of quickness defensively, funny how you guys are making comments like "they're old", Artest is no young gun himself, not to mention there's a lot of questions as to if he can fit in the triangle offense and live with being the third option, as opposed to being the first or second option like he was in Houston during these previous playoffs. Plus, he's literally insane, but that's a given. LOL. First off Ron Artest is 30, and Sheed is 35. How in the world is Artest old? Kobe is the same age, so is Kobe Old? Tim Duncan is 34, thats still 4 years older than Artest. So how aren't the Spurs front court guys old if they add Sheed? As for Jefferson. You have to remember all of his stats were done this season with 3 of the teams leading scorers from last season being traded for nothing, or injured for more than half the season. So Charlie V, Sessions, and Jeffersons numbers were inflated due to the fact that nobody else on the floor was going to score. You could put half of the starting SF's in the league in that situation and they would get numbers. Hell I'd be willing to bet Mike Miller could get numbers in that system. There was no number 1 guy, just a bunch of guys with a green light to shoot and if they missed it didn't matter because the best reserve is Bobby Simmons. Artest is in the middle of his prime, and if he keeps his act straight he will be the steal of the FA for the next 3 seasons. Ron is happy, he's playing in a city where he wants to be. He doesn't want to be anywhere else besides New York. So I imagin that he will be on his best behavior, because he wants to play for the Lakers and loves the city. He like the Kings, but hated Sacramento. He loved the Rockets, but didn't love Houston. He loves the Lakers, and loves LA even more. Uhhh I was talking more in the lines of RJ and Artest, but ok. Your argument about RJ's stats being inflated is pretty dumb. You could say the same thing for Artest during the Houston-LA series in the playoffs, only his weren't that impressive, despite him being the #1 option due to Yao and T-Mac being out. Jefferson averaged 22.6 ppg in Jersey with Carter (and Kidd for half a season) two years ago, so your argument again is a pretty dumb one. 30 is actually the downward slope of the prime years, which are considered to be around 27-29, let's face it, anyone over 30 is considered to be "old". I never said the Spurs frontcourt wasn't old, all I said was that Artest wasn't some young gun either, so let's get that out of the way. The Spurs are a veteran team, they've been "old" for the last seven years when they had Robinson, Willis, Ferry, Kerr, Smith, etc., that argument has always proven false because they have been able to win championships despite being old. Injuries had a to do with last year. The argument that they weren't who they were three years ago is an unfair one, because three years ago they were healthy. It's making it sound like they have gotten worse over time, not so, if, and it is a big if, but if they stay healthy, they're one of the best teams in the league, that's pretty hard to deny. I love how you act like you actually know what Ron Artest is thinking to. How do you know that he's "happy"? The man is insane, it's been proven over the years. His mood changes so fast that most coaches don't know how to handle him. You combine his psycho personality with Kobe's huge ego, you could be facing chemistry problems, that's pretty hard to deny. It could work out great, or it could be a disaster where Kobe chases another teammate out of town or goes through with another "I want to be traded" whining spree in order to satisfy his selfish and immature personality.
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Post by Steve on Jul 4, 2009 19:34:30 GMT -4
Ron is happy, he's playing in a city where he wants to be. He doesn't want to be anywhere else besides New York. So I imagin that he will be on his best behavior, because he wants to play for the Lakers and loves the city. He like the Kings, but hated Sacramento. He loved the Rockets, but didn't love Houston. He loves the Lakers, and loves LA even more. LOL
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DRE
6th Man
SLOX - Raptors
2008 SLOX Champions
Posts: 1,337
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Post by DRE on Jul 5, 2009 4:27:16 GMT -4
I'll be honest...I'll take LeBron, Carmelo, Butler, Pierce, Turkoglu, Artest, Prince, Jackson, Granger, Durant, Iguodala, Wallace, Howard, and Granger all over Jefferson at SF. Only listed one from above not included is Gay, who I fully expect to pass RJ soon. Puts him at #15 for me. He was a great pickup don't get me wrong, but my 2 cents on the "top 10 SF" argument is that.
-Dre
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Post by Jogo on Jul 5, 2009 9:12:02 GMT -4
You listed Granger twice. Other than that looks good.
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Post by Kobe Dominates! on Jul 6, 2009 1:43:55 GMT -4
No Sheed but this guy is still available... Get it done Popovich! LOL!
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Post by J-Sav on Jul 6, 2009 13:07:39 GMT -4
Boston should be the favorite now. Sheed will be a great addition to an already great team.
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Post by Beast Mode (lilsims) on Jul 6, 2009 13:10:25 GMT -4
LOL. First off Ron Artest is 30, and Sheed is 35. How in the world is Artest old? Kobe is the same age, so is Kobe Old? Tim Duncan is 34, thats still 4 years older than Artest. So how aren't the Spurs front court guys old if they add Sheed? As for Jefferson. You have to remember all of his stats were done this season with 3 of the teams leading scorers from last season being traded for nothing, or injured for more than half the season. So Charlie V, Sessions, and Jeffersons numbers were inflated due to the fact that nobody else on the floor was going to score. You could put half of the starting SF's in the league in that situation and they would get numbers. Hell I'd be willing to bet Mike Miller could get numbers in that system. There was no number 1 guy, just a bunch of guys with a green light to shoot and if they missed it didn't matter because the best reserve is Bobby Simmons. Artest is in the middle of his prime, and if he keeps his act straight he will be the steal of the FA for the next 3 seasons. Ron is happy, he's playing in a city where he wants to be. He doesn't want to be anywhere else besides New York. So I imagin that he will be on his best behavior, because he wants to play for the Lakers and loves the city. He like the Kings, but hated Sacramento. He loved the Rockets, but didn't love Houston. He loves the Lakers, and loves LA even more. Uhhh I was talking more in the lines of RJ and Artest, but ok. Your argument about RJ's stats being inflated is pretty dumb. You could say the same thing for Artest during the Houston-LA series in the playoffs, only his weren't that impressive, despite him being the #1 option due to Yao and T-Mac being out. Jefferson averaged 22.6 ppg in Jersey with Carter (and Kidd for half a season) two years ago, so your argument again is a pretty dumb one. 30 is actually the downward slope of the prime years, which are considered to be around 27-29, let's face it, anyone over 30 is considered to be "old". I never said the Spurs frontcourt wasn't old, all I said was that Artest wasn't some young gun either, so let's get that out of the way. The Spurs are a veteran team, they've been "old" for the last seven years when they had Robinson, Willis, Ferry, Kerr, Smith, etc., that argument has always proven false because they have been able to win championships despite being old. Injuries had a to do with last year. The argument that they weren't who they were three years ago is an unfair one, because three years ago they were healthy. It's making it sound like they have gotten worse over time, not so, if, and it is a big if, but if they stay healthy, they're one of the best teams in the league, that's pretty hard to deny. I love how you act like you actually know what Ron Artest is thinking to. How do you know that he's "happy"? The man is insane, it's been proven over the years. His mood changes so fast that most coaches don't know how to handle him. You combine his psycho personality with Kobe's huge ego, you could be facing chemistry problems, that's pretty hard to deny. It could work out great, or it could be a disaster where Kobe chases another teammate out of town or goes through with another "I want to be traded" whining spree in order to satisfy his selfish and immature personality. I take it you weren't around when Artest was asking for trades from Indiana and Sacramento. Both instances he asked for New York or either LA teams. As for Artest being insane................. So was Dennis Rodman, but he managed to grab a few rings in Chicago. For the fact that guys get up every morning and head to the arena, that tells me they aren't too insane. They know where there money is, and I would think at some point you would want to win a title since you've been in the league for 10 years and thats all everyone talks about. If Artest was truely insane he would had took that job at best buy when he was with the Bulls and quit the NBA. Artest is just hood, he's not insane
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