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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 2:12:10 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 2:12:10 GMT -4
dominates, did you only post to try and start an argument? seems like you're more about trying to talk shit than have a friendly discussion. Are you basing Gasol being a better defender on actually watching the two play or just seeing that Gasol avg more blocks? Why is it laughable to say Z-bo is a borderline all-star? The year before last he put up 23.6/10.1. Are you saying those aren't borderline all-star numbers? Oh no, his TS% ranked 42nd. If you want to use a pointless stat how about his PER that ranks 13th among PFs or that his PER last season would have ranked 4th this year and 12th in the entire league. How about the fact the Grizz need rebounding and Z-Bo ranked 5th in rebound rate for a PF? If you think Darko and Jaric are better than Zach then more power to you because Darko's TS% is even worse. I don't know why you are getting upset. I do think Gasol is underrated as a defender because he is 7 foot tall and has long ass arms. Check the FG effeciency of Duncan, Garnett and Boozer in the playoffs if you don't believe me. Randolph already has a league wide reputation as being a liability defensively. Google his name with the word defense if you doubt it. The idea of you as a fan being excited about potentially adding a player who is at least just as bad defensively as the scapegoat who was sent out of town doesn't make any sense to me. Its laughable to say that Randolph is a borderline all star because he would never come close to an all star team in the Western Conference. Definately better Pau Gasol Tim Duncan David West Carlos Boozer Ron Artest Amare Stoudamire Dirk Nowitzki Probably Better LaMarcus Aldridge Marcus Camby All star teams don't go 9 deep at each position. If you are the 9th best PF in your conference you are borderline average you are not a borderline all star. and in the Eastern Conference Definately better KG Rasheed Wallace Jamison Bosh Brand J Smith Emeka Okafor Rashard Lewis Once again borderline average at his position
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 2:28:48 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 2:28:48 GMT -4
dominates, did you only post to try and start an argument? seems like you're more about trying to talk shit than have a friendly discussion. Are you basing Gasol being a better defender on actually watching the two play or just seeing that Gasol avg more blocks? Why is it laughable to say Z-bo is a borderline all-star? The year before last he put up 23.6/10.1. Are you saying those aren't borderline all-star numbers? Oh no, his TS% ranked 42nd. If you want to use a pointless stat how about his PER that ranks 13th among PFs or that his PER last season would have ranked 4th this year and 12th in the entire league. How about the fact the Grizz need rebounding and Z-Bo ranked 5th in rebound rate for a PF? If you think Darko and Jaric are better than Zach then more power to you because Darko's TS% is even worse. I don't know why you are getting upset. I do think Gasol is underrated as a defender because he is 7 foot tall and has long ass arms. Check the FG effeciency of Duncan, Garnett and Boozer in the playoffs if you don't believe me. Randolph already has a league wide reputation as being a liability defensively. Google his name with the word defense if you doubt it. The idea of you as a fan being excited about potentially adding a player who is at least just as bad defensively as the scapegoat who was sent out of town doesn't make any sense to me. Its laughable to say that Randolph is a borderline all star because he would never come close to an all star team in the Western Conference. Definately better Pau Gasol Tim Duncan David West Carlos Boozer Ron Artest Amare Stoudamire Dirk Nowitzki Probably Better LaMarcus Aldridge Marcus Camby All star teams don't go 9 deep at each position. If you are the 9th best PF in your conference you are borderline average you are not a borderline all star. where exactly did I get upset? show me that and i'll give you a cookie. If you think Gasol is underrated as a defender then you haven't seen him play much. He can get some blocks and alter shots due to his length, but he plays matador defense and gets pushed around by every one. I don't need to google anything about Z-Bo's defense because I already know he's a horrible defender. For some reason you keep ignoring the part where Z-bo is better than anything we give up, he would be our best inside scorer, and he would be our best rebounder. If we were trading Gasol for Z-Bo i could see some of your points, but Gasol has nothing to do with this trade. We traded Gasol for cap space and picks. If we make this trade we still have that cap space and picks/young players. The Gasol trade was shit. Everyone knows that. I think you're also forgetting that the last year in portland Z-Bo WAS a borderline all-star in the west. Duncan, Dirk, Boozer, and Amare are better than Z-Bo. The rest are debatable. Artest is a SF, so he doesn't really apply.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 2:33:25 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 2:33:25 GMT -4
also some of the players you listed would make the all-star team at C, which changes the 9 deep idea
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 2:36:53 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 2:36:53 GMT -4
How is it debatable? Gasol, West, Boozer and Camby already have made all star teams. They don't have the bogus "borderline" tag to their name that apparently applies to every average starter in the league.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 2:39:16 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 2:39:16 GMT -4
Camby is playing along Kaman ... he will be a PF.... or Kaman will... doesn't matter because both are better than Z-Bo
Artest is also going to play PF alongside Battier
Go ahead and rank all the Power Forwards in the league. You are kidding yourself if you think Zbo is an above average starter.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 2:42:06 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 2:42:06 GMT -4
since you wanted to compare zach with gasol here you go. Zach didn't play gasol this past season, but played him 3 times the previous season. here's the stats:
game 1
gasol- 50 min, 24 pts, 14 reb, 6 bl, 2 ast, 9to
zach- 47 min, 42 pts, 12 reb, 0 bl, 2 st, 2 ast, 4 to
game 2
gasol- 43 min, 23 pts, 4 reb, 1 bl, 1st, 1 ast, 1 to
zach- 39 min, 25 pts, 7 reb, 0 bl, 2 st, 1 ast, 1 to
game 3
gasol- 40 min, 17 pts, 8 reb, 1bl, 0 st, 3 ast, 2 to
zach- 40 min, 43 pts, 17 reb, 2 bl, 0 st, 5 ast, 2 to
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 2:46:20 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 2:46:20 GMT -4
How is it debatable? Gasol, West, Boozer and Camby already have made all star teams. They don't have the bogus "borderline" tag to their name that apparently applies to every average starter in the league. zach has always owned gasol. zach has had better years than west. boozer is good, and i even said he was better. camby is too old. Zach isn't an all-star because he's been on shitty teams that didn't have enough talent to support him. It's harder to make the all-star team when your team sucks than when your team is winning.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 2:48:09 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 2:48:09 GMT -4
do i think zach was an all-star caliber player this year? no. has he been in the past? yes. can he be in the future? yes. You seem to be basing everything on this year with the knicks instead of what he's done in the past and is capable of. I mean hell Wally was a fucking all-star.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 2:56:45 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 2:56:45 GMT -4
How is it debatable? Gasol, West, Boozer and Camby already have made all star teams. They don't have the bogus "borderline" tag to their name that apparently applies to every average starter in the league. zach has always owned gasol. zach has had better years than west. boozer is good, and i even said he was better. camby is too old. Zach isn't an all-star because he's been on shitty teams that didn't have enough talent to support him. It's harder to make the all-star team when your team sucks than when your team is winning. Some serious revisionist history going on here... www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=VrPj4Zach vs Gasol has been pretty even per game. He certainly hasn't always owned him. Why would use a season three years ago to compare against West's all star season last year? There is no reason to believe Zbo next year is going to play any better than he has the last three years. Put Randolph on the Grizzlies and they are still going to suck. He still is going to have no chance at the all star team. I dont see how that fact does anything to prove your point. Go ahead and rank the power forwards in the league. It will be interesting to see where you place him.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 3:08:45 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 3:08:45 GMT -4
zach has always owned gasol. zach has had better years than west. boozer is good, and i even said he was better. camby is too old. Zach isn't an all-star because he's been on shitty teams that didn't have enough talent to support him. It's harder to make the all-star team when your team sucks than when your team is winning. Some serious revisionist history going on here... www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=VrPj4Zach vs Gasol has been pretty even per game. He certainly hasn't always owned him. Why would use a season three years ago to compare against West's all star season last year? There is no reason to believe Zbo next year is going to play any better than he has the last three years. Put Randolph on the Grizzlies and they are still going to suck. He still is going to have no chance at the all star team. I dont see how that fact does anything to prove your point. Go ahead and rank the power forwards in the league. It will be interesting to see where you place him. some serious revisionist history? did you even look over the stats? some of those games were before Zach even became the starter, which means he barely even played. Look at the stats. Zach avg 8.5 LESS mpg, yet still avg more points and rebounds. That = owning. Yes, the grizz will still suck, but it won't be all zach's fault. It will be because we are one of the youngest teams in the league. Our defense won't be any better, but our offense and rebounding will. Where did i use a season 3 years ago? Statistically, Zach has had a better year than West every year west has been in the league except for this past season. The last 3 years Zach has avg 19.7 ppg and 9.5 rpg. I'll take that over Darko and Jaric's stats combined. My point is Zach is better than darko and jaric. I've proven that. My point is Zach helps the grizz by improving their offense and rebounding. I've proven that. My point is Zach is a borderline all-star talent. He's proven that by putting up 23/10. What else exactly am I supposed to be trying to prove?
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 3:18:29 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 3:18:29 GMT -4
Still with the borderline all star nonsense? LOL. How many projected starting PFs next year are not borderline all stars? Hell don't sell the Grizzlies short. They are borderline championship contenders. I just thought it was funny that Grizzlies fans want to trade for an overpaid big man who doesn't defend after hating Gasol for being an overpaid big man who doesn't defend.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 3:42:13 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 3:42:13 GMT -4
Still with the borderline all star nonsense? LOL. How many projected starting PFs next year are not borderline all stars? Hell don't sell the Grizzlies short. They are borderline championship contenders. I just thought it was funny that Grizzlies fans want to trade for an overpaid big man who doesn't defend after hating Gasol for being an overpaid big man who doesn't defend. i wish your jokes were as funny as your thoughts on the grizz. starting PFs that aren't borderline all-stars: drew gooden kenyon martin rasheed wallace (he'll be 34) luois scola troy murphy al harrington hakim warrick (prime example why we could use zach) udonis haslem (although beasley could be the starter) charlie villanueva kevin love (unless he happens to have a great rookie year) yi jianlin chris wilcox mikki moore there's a difference between the gasol situation and trading for zach. I already said it, but guess you missed it. We gave gasol a max contract. We're trading the salaries of players we already have for a better player in zach. We're trading something for something more. The problem wasn't that gasol didn't defend. It was that he didn't defend, he was a poor rebounder, he's soft, and complains non stop. You don't understand the whole soft and complaining aspects because you aren't a grizz fan, don't watch their games, and are basing most of your gasol opinion on what you read. Grizz fans didn't turn on Gasol because he was a poor defender. Look at Mike Miller. Horrible defender, but a fan favorite. Grizz fans gave up on Gasol because on court it looked like he gave up on the Grizz. Not to mention when it leaked out he was looking to be traded he wasn't exactly a fan favorite.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 3:48:56 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 3:48:56 GMT -4
if you have two cheap ass rubber basketballs would you trade them for a slightly used leather spalding basketball?
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 3:50:41 GMT -4
Post by DatBoyWonder on Sept 9, 2008 3:50:41 GMT -4
The Grizzlies have had a nice off-season thus far. As a Celtics fan, I absolutely despise Chris Wallace because he came in and basically made our franchise even more trashy than it already was. I laughed when the Grizzlies signed him and turns out I was right to laugh after he traded Gasol for pebbles. I give him *some* credit though because that did put their franchise in a good position salary wise. I mainly give him credit for obtaining O.J. Mayo. That was a very smart move IMO.
What I don't understand is... why in the world would you trade Pau Gasol and then turn around and acquire Zach Randolph? It makes zero sense. You cannot contradict yourself harder than this... does this prove that the Gasol to Lakers deal was actually some inside connections between both franchises? Or maybe Chris Wallace is just having a change of heart?
If ZBo's stints as the "man" on the Blazers and Knicks have shown anythingg, it is that his impressive numbers make little to no impact on the game. He can't put Ws on the board as your go-to guy. He isn't going to hustle nor play defense. I am not going to get into off court activities since I don't know him, but everything seems to point towards him being your usual NBA "thug." Is that the guy Chris Wallace wants to put around his young core? Until ZBo realizes that he does not have the ability to be the "man" and regulates himself to more of a 3rd option/offensive spark type of guy, he will always be a cancer to a team.
Darko and especially Jaric are nothing special though, so the deal isn't exactly bad for the Grizzlies... That team does need some inside scoring. The thing with ZBo is, he is more KG than Duncan in regards to the post (as in, when he posts up he is phenomenal, but he would much rather shoot jumpers). If there is one thing I like about ZBo, it is that he is tough. Toughness is an underrated trait and it goes a long way. You cannot win with a bunch of bitches on the team. Still though, what is this deal going to ultimately do? Maybe the Grizzlies win 27 games instead of 22....
Although the Grizzlies have an array of guards, if they add Crittenton or Lowry to the deal, then the Knicks win this one easily. I really think the Grizzlies should be looking else where to find their big man. But I'll say it again, this deal isn't exactly bad, it just doesn't make perfect sense for the Grizzlies.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 3:56:51 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 3:56:51 GMT -4
grizz need rebounding and zach is one of the better rebounders. why trade gasol and then trade for zach? again, we aren't trading gasol for zach. it's two completely different deals. the gasol trade was shit, but that said we got cap and youth. we trade darko and jaric for a better player in zach and still have the cap and youth from the gasol trade. basically we replace gasol while getting youth and cap to bring in another player if they so choose. trading gasol helped our cap. trading for zach has no affect on our cap right now
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