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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 15:43:52 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 15:43:52 GMT -4
I think it's more likely for the Grizz to win a game with Z-Bo starting than with Darko starting Is that the goal of the franchise? To win a handful more games ensuring them a worse lottery pick next year and adding $10 million to their 2010 cap figure? The upside of this deal is small, the downside involves getting the grizzlies young players involved with a known low character and low work ethic veteran. why would the goal of any franchise ever be to win more games? that would just be stupid. You don't know the upside because you seem to have a bias against Zach. You can say the same to me, but I at least have an argument with the fact we're improving the overall talent of the team. We have a young team that will hopefully be together in 2010 so what does it matter if Zach adds 10 mil? we won't have the cap to sign anyone for more than the MLE by then anyway. Zach is only 27. If he was 30+ this would be a bad deal, but he's still young. If your satisfied with your team playing to get a better pick than good for you. Me, I actually like to see my team win and improve the level of talent on their team. Conley/Lowry Mayo/crittenton Gay Z-Bo/warrick/arthur Marc Gasol That looks like a good foundation to build on, and we still have the cap space to offer a max or near max contract.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 15:54:53 GMT -4
Post by kfilament on Sept 9, 2008 15:54:53 GMT -4
dont believe everything you read man, the trade about pau wasnt all about rebuilding. Pau is still young, our infamous 3YP would find pau still in his prime for the most part, still very capable of contributing. He was traded for a variety of reasons, one of which was he had become such a polarizing figure within the organization and community that they decided it was best to move on. They knew they could never get player for player value for him, so tthey did the next best thing. got rid of him and acquiured cap space.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 16:04:05 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 16:04:05 GMT -4
Is that the goal of the franchise? To win a handful more games ensuring them a worse lottery pick next year and adding $10 million to their 2010 cap figure? The upside of this deal is small, the downside involves getting the grizzlies young players involved with a known low character and low work ethic veteran. why would the goal of any franchise ever be to win more games? that would just be stupid. You don't know the upside because you seem to have a bias against Zach. You can say the same to me, but I at least have an argument with the fact we're improving the overall talent of the team. We have a young team that will hopefully be together in 2010 so what does it matter if Zach adds 10 mil? we won't have the cap to sign anyone for more than the MLE by then anyway. Zach is only 27. If he was 30+ this would be a bad deal, but he's still young. If your satisfied with your team playing to get a better pick than good for you. Me, I actually like to see my team win and improve the level of talent on their team. Conley/Lowry Mayo/crittenton Gay Z-Bo/warrick/arthur Marc Gasol That looks like a good foundation to build on, and we still have the cap space to offer a max or near max contract. Enjoy perennial mediocrity with that future lineup. You would think watching the Kings and Knicks "rebuild" would have told you all you need to know about that strategy. I would much prefer Portland or team formerly known as Seattle strategy if my team was rebuilding. Hell look at the Lakers. They drafted Bynum when there were plenty of other players that would have been ready sooner. They passed on trading him repeatedly even when it meant the talent of the team would be upgraded for the short term and Kobe was whining like a bitch and lastly they only traded their youth and picks for a veteran bonafide all star when they knew he would lift them to championship contender status not slightly better lottery team. Thankfully our GM doesnt have your mindset or the Kobe would still be on the radio crying to everyone and anyone.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 16:24:26 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 16:24:26 GMT -4
why would the goal of any franchise ever be to win more games? that would just be stupid. You don't know the upside because you seem to have a bias against Zach. You can say the same to me, but I at least have an argument with the fact we're improving the overall talent of the team. We have a young team that will hopefully be together in 2010 so what does it matter if Zach adds 10 mil? we won't have the cap to sign anyone for more than the MLE by then anyway. Zach is only 27. If he was 30+ this would be a bad deal, but he's still young. If your satisfied with your team playing to get a better pick than good for you. Me, I actually like to see my team win and improve the level of talent on their team. Conley/Lowry Mayo/crittenton Gay Z-Bo/warrick/arthur Marc Gasol That looks like a good foundation to build on, and we still have the cap space to offer a max or near max contract. Enjoy perennial mediocrity with that future lineup. You would think watching the Kings and Knicks "rebuild" would have told you all you need to know about that strategy. I would much prefer Portland or team formerly known as Seattle strategy if my team was rebuilding. Hell look at the Lakers. They drafted Bynum when there were plenty of other players that would have been ready sooner. They passed on trading him repeatedly even when it meant the talent of the team would be upgraded for the short term and Kobe was whining like a bitch and lastly they only traded their youth and picks for a veteran bonafide all star when they knew he would lift them to championship contender status not slightly better lottery team. Thankfully our GM doesnt have your mindset or the Kobe would still be on the radio crying to everyone and anyone. those are pretty bad examples. Bynum has shown the potential to be a top center. Darko has shown the potential to be an adequate backup. How is the knicks and kings rebuild even close to the grizz rebuild? Knicks have the highest payroll in the league. Grizz are far enough under the cap to offer a max contract. Knicks put together a team that made no sense from day one. If the Grizz add Z-Bo they have a pretty well rounded team on paper if Marc plays like he did overseas. The kings are in the midst of a rebuild. They traded Bibby, and still have old players in miller, Bjax, kenny, and rahim if he doesn't retire. Right now we have a much better future than the kings and knicks.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 16:29:44 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 16:29:44 GMT -4
seattle lucked into durant. we had the worst record and "should" have landed oden or durant, in which case this conversation wouldn't even be happening. portland has a GM that actually spends money, so they were able to buy draft picks to get young talent. If you think seattle has an unquestionable better future than the grizz you're crazy.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 16:31:14 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 16:31:14 GMT -4
also seattle traded vets for youth and picks and then built through the draft. grizz traded vets for youth and picks and then built through the draft so you kind of missed the boat on that one. Z-Bo would be the first expensive vet we bring in and we'd be trading lesser talent to do so
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 16:34:55 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 16:34:55 GMT -4
one last thing, since we'll have near max cap next year the grizz should actually want to win more games in order to attract a big FA (eventhough he probably wouldn't be interested anyway). If you just keep building through the draft getting all this cap space would prove pointless since you'd just keep adding small contracts to decrease the cap u can spend. Z-bo isn't the missing piece. He's a piece. The fact you can't seem to grasp that is almost sad.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 16:35:25 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 16:35:25 GMT -4
Are you forgetting the just last year at the peak of the trade for Jason Kidd hype Andrew Bynum was coming off the bench to backup the legend Kwame Brown? How does it say anything about his potential when he was losing the fight for minutes against one of worst starting centers in the league. No one would have doubted that trading for Jason Kidd would have had a short term positive overall talent impact on the team.
The Kings traded for Artest and then won a few more games as a result. In the grand scheme of things who cares??? They never challenged for the playoffs and the last two years they were just good enough to miss out on the high lottery talents. If they would have never traded for Artest in the first place they would have been in a better situation now with better young players instead of Hawes and that other lightweight from No Name Tech.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 16:38:07 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 16:38:07 GMT -4
one last thing, since we'll have near max cap next year the grizz should actually want to win more games in order to attract a big FA (eventhough he probably wouldn't be interested anyway). If you just keep building through the draft getting all this cap space would prove pointless since you'd just keep adding small contracts to decrease the cap u can spend. Z-bo isn't the missing piece. He's a piece. The fact you can't seem to grasp that is almost sad. Yes I can just imagine Lebron wanting to join forces with the amazing Z-bo. Who wouldn't want to share the spotlight with a defensive liability who never passes the ball?
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 16:39:24 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 16:39:24 GMT -4
Are you forgetting the just last year at the peak of the trade for Jason Kidd hype Andrew Bynum was coming off the bench to backup the legend Kwame Brown? How does it say anything about his potential when he was losing the fight for minutes against one of worst starting centers in the league. No one would have doubted that trading for Jason Kidd would have had a short term positive overall talent impact on the team. The Kings traded for Artest and then won a few more games as a result. In the grand scheme of things who cares??? They never challenged for the playoffs and the last two years they were just good enough to miss out on the high lottery talents. If they would have never traded for Artest in the first place they would have been in a better situation now with better young players instead of Hawes and that other lightweight from No Name Tech. um, no. The kings went to hell when they got rid of rick adelman. How old is Kidd? How old is Z-Bo? Who do you think will be a better player 5 years from now Bynum, Darko, or Kwame? Who do you think everyone in the world thinks will be a better player 5 years from now Bynum, Darko, or Kwame?
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 16:42:02 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 16:42:02 GMT -4
one last thing, since we'll have near max cap next year the grizz should actually want to win more games in order to attract a big FA (eventhough he probably wouldn't be interested anyway). If you just keep building through the draft getting all this cap space would prove pointless since you'd just keep adding small contracts to decrease the cap u can spend. Z-bo isn't the missing piece. He's a piece. The fact you can't seem to grasp that is almost sad. Yes I can just imagine Lebron wanting to join forces with the amazing Z-bo. Who wouldn't want to share the spotlight with a defensive liability who never passes the ball? wow, if you ever decide to make a good point i'd be amazed. first, i said i doubt we'd sign a big FA, but at least we have a chance. second, lebron won't be an FA until 2010. I'm talking about next season. Third, if we still have the cap space in 2010 and Conley, Gay, and Mayo live up to their potential while we have a 20/10 guy in Z-bo what's so far fetched about it? Who do you think will have a better core to surround Bron in 2010? Cavs or Grizz? I'd say grizz by a long shot since wally, ben, and Z won't be very enticing in 2 years.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 17:11:38 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 17:11:38 GMT -4
Yes I can just imagine Lebron wanting to join forces with the amazing Z-bo. Who wouldn't want to share the spotlight with a defensive liability who never passes the ball? wow, if you ever decide to make a good point i'd be amazed. first, i said i doubt we'd sign a big FA, but at least we have a chance. second, lebron won't be an FA until 2010. I'm talking about next season. Third, if we still have the cap space in 2010 and Conley, Gay, and Mayo live up to their potential while we have a 20/10 guy in Z-bo what's so far fetched about it? Who do you think will have a better core to surround Bron in 2010? Cavs or Grizz? I'd say grizz by a long shot since wally, ben, and Z won't be very enticing in 2 years. If I remember correctly the Cavs can double dip into free agency like the Jazz in SLOX which could trump anything on the Grizzlies roster. Who cares about potential? You guys need to up that win total right now. I haven't seen anything from Mayo and Conley to suggest their potential is any different than Darko's whom you are willing to write off at 23.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 17:28:42 GMT -4
Post by kfilament on Sept 9, 2008 17:28:42 GMT -4
the double dip as it happened in SLOX is virtually impossible in the NBA. I did some reading up on it, it just cant happen. I mean, let me say this, techincally it can, however, first and foremost, no owner will pay that much, especially not the cavs, secondly, nba players are entirely too selfish for this to work.
Also, all this talk about titles, need i remind you how many teams have one titles over the past decade or two decades even? Its a bunch of hot air. Mike heisley blows smoke up your ass about a championship so youw ill be interested, and buy tickets, dont forget its a business. What they want to do is get a competitive team on the floor, Zbo makes this team much more competitive right now, i feel there is no debating that, sorry. zbo>>>>darko + jaric.
Furthermore, you cant compare how teams build, there are some many variables that its just impossible to compare one of 30 teams scenarios to another. I have seen plenty from conley to suggest he will be better than darko, mayo, i will give you that, but you wanna put a wager on it?? i doubt it, highly.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 18:10:16 GMT -4
Post by sativa417 on Sept 9, 2008 18:10:16 GMT -4
wow, if you ever decide to make a good point i'd be amazed. first, i said i doubt we'd sign a big FA, but at least we have a chance. second, lebron won't be an FA until 2010. I'm talking about next season. Third, if we still have the cap space in 2010 and Conley, Gay, and Mayo live up to their potential while we have a 20/10 guy in Z-bo what's so far fetched about it? Who do you think will have a better core to surround Bron in 2010? Cavs or Grizz? I'd say grizz by a long shot since wally, ben, and Z won't be very enticing in 2 years. If I remember correctly the Cavs can double dip into free agency like the Jazz in SLOX which could trump anything on the Grizzlies roster. Who cares about potential? You guys need to up that win total right now. I haven't seen anything from Mayo and Conley to suggest their potential is any different than Darko's whom you are willing to write off at 23. now you're contradicting yourself. you say we need to up our win total right now after saying we should avoid Z-Bo to continue to get high picks. I haven't written off darko. I've only said Z-Bo is better and that Bynum will be better. As of right now, when Bron is a FA the Cavs will have mo will, jj hickson, and daniel gibson. If the resign a 35 year old ben wallace, a 35 year old Z, pavlovic or varejao they won't have the money to sign bron and a top FA. Unless they make some trades or luck out in the draft Bron will have jack shit around him to compete with. By no means do I think the Grizz have a shot at Bron if for no other reason we're too small of a market, but if we get Z-Bo the grizz will have a much better team for Bron in 2010 than the Cavs.
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Z-BO
Sept 9, 2008 20:40:11 GMT -4
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Sept 9, 2008 20:40:11 GMT -4
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