|
Post by Beast Mode (lilsims) on Jul 23, 2008 19:14:10 GMT -4
For the families who have nothing, one year makes a huge difference. One year can mean the difference from that player selling crack to support his family, and going to jail.
These aren't middle class kids for the most part, these are kids who have nothing. If you haven't already watched, you should checkout 'Through the fire' the story about sebastian telfair. Or did you ever get a chance to see the Fox show called ' Preps' where they followed Eddy Curry, Najeb Echolls, Will Bynum, Jason Straight, and Sean Dockery. Or the documentary called 'Hoop dreams' These kids are their families hope. Imagine being 17 with that responsibility. And you want that kid to go to college, and have free meals and board. While his brothers and sister share a one bedroom home with aunts and uncles with no electricity? That’s why the OJ Mayos take money. Not just to buy rims, but to take care of their families.
Maybe it isn't about race, but it is about something. If a GM takes a bust, then its on him. Star HS players get millions to go pitch in single A, why can't star basketball players. Not all number one picks turnout to be gods, it's the GM's job to know what he is investing in.
|
|
|
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Jul 23, 2008 19:49:01 GMT -4
Its about the owners making more money. Increasing the age makes the draft less of a crapshoot. Baseball has huge farm systems and 50 round drafts. If you play any college baseball at all you cant reenter the draft until your junior year. Its not exactly an apples to apples comparison.
You are only considering one type of player. The poor black high school phenom who ends up being a bust. What about the poor black high school phenom who ends up getting undrafted or The poor black high school phenom who gets drafted in the second round and is later cut? How about the high school phenom who uses college as a marketing tool and gets huge endorsement deals. only to bust? They are all black right? Should we ignore the fact that forcing them to go to college would have been a better choice for them?
|
|
|
Post by Beast Mode (lilsims) on Jul 23, 2008 20:02:51 GMT -4
Its about the owners making more money. Increasing the age makes the draft less of a crapshoot. Baseball has huge farm systems and 50 round drafts. If you play any college baseball at all you cant reenter the draft until your junior year. Its not exactly an apples to apples comparison. You are only considering one type of player. The poor black high school phenom who ends up being a bust. What about the poor black high school phenom who ends up getting undrafted or The poor black high school phenom who gets drafted in the second round and is later cut? How about the high school phenom who uses college as a marketing tool and gets huge endorsement deals. only to bust? They are all black right? Should we ignore the fact that forcing them to go to college would have been a better choice for them? I wouldn't be a basketball fan if I said college basketball isn't beneficial to some players. But in this case, there are two sides to this coin. I think it's wrong to ignore one side. And don't kid yourself, I firmly believe this is 100% about the owners nothing to do with the kids. Owners don't like wasting money, and want more sure things. You make good points, I just think that the age limit wasn't for the players it was for the gm's. Even college basketball coaches/Analyst don't like the one and out rule. Thats why I hope more players go oversee's to correct the wrong that David Stern has done IMO
|
|
|
Post by phdsims on Jul 24, 2008 0:31:33 GMT -4
great move by childress and his agent.....
I see Europe has helping out American Players in their fight against bad NBA rules....
age limit - seems unfair to the players....sonny vaccaro found his poster child to fight against it and europe did their part to help out...
restricted free agency - really unfair to players - the agents found themsleves a poster child to fight against it and euriope did their part to help out...
awesome...
I now hope Ridnardo Sidney plays in europe instead of college and hope to see another high profile RFA choose europe....or at the least see more take the Qualifying offer and leave their teams in UFA...
|
|
|
Post by stevegamer on Jul 24, 2008 1:00:15 GMT -4
great move by childress and his agent..... I see Europe has helping out American Players in their fight against bad NBA rules.... age limit - seems unfair to the players....sonny vaccaro found his poster child to fight against it and europe did their part to help out... restricted free agency - really unfair to players - the agents found themsleves a poster child to fight against it and euriope did their part to help out...awesome... I now hope Ridnardo Sidney plays in europe instead of college and hope to see another high profile RFA choose europe....or at the least see more take the Qualifying offer and leave their teams in UFA... RFA isn't unfair to the players. It's part of a contractually bargained settlement between the owners & the players. when 2 sides agree on something in a labor contract, it is completely unfair to call it "unfair".
|
|
|
Post by phdsims on Jul 24, 2008 1:13:25 GMT -4
ehh... I think I disagree..... that is why there is always re-negotiation.... it might be unfair for players to call it unfair.... but I had nothing to do with the aggrement, so I can call it unfair... just like when 2 sides have an out-of-court settlement, outsiders can say that one side got an unfair settlement even though both agreed to it... ;D thus, I say RFA is unfair to the players..........AND........that teams are shooting themselves in the foot by acting outside the "intent" of the rule..... the intent of Restricted Free Agency was not for teams to only offer super low ball offers and say "this is your only offer, if you want fair value go negotiate with another team and we will match their offer".....b/c no other team is going to waste their time helping another teams player get more money....... btw, I also think the NFL's rookie pay is unfair to teams and veteran players, but it was also agreed upon in their CBA....
|
|
|
Post by stevegamer on Jul 24, 2008 1:25:28 GMT -4
For the families who have nothing, one year makes a huge difference. One year can mean the difference from that player selling crack to support his family, and going to jail. These aren't middle class kids for the most part, these are kids who have nothing. If you haven't already watched, you should checkout 'Through the fire' the story about sebastian telfair. Or did you ever get a chance to see the Fox show called ' Preps' where they followed Eddy Curry, Najeb Echolls, Will Bynum, Jason Straight, and Sean Dockery. Or the documentary called 'Hoop dreams' These kids are their families hope. Imagine being 17 with that responsibility. And you want that kid to go to college, and have free meals and board. While his brothers and sister share a one bedroom home with aunts and uncles with no electricity? That’s why the OJ Mayos take money. Not just to buy rims, but to take care of their families. Maybe it isn't about race, but it is about something. If a GM takes a bust, then its on him. Star HS players get millions to go pitch in single A, why can't star basketball players. Not all number one picks turnout to be gods, it's the GM's job to know what he is investing in. I think that having kids be able to go to Europe & play makes a lot of sense. And of course the free agents can go there as well. It isn't about race directly. I can break this down for you guys in a couple ways. 0. Individual sports like Tennis, Golf, Track are simply not comparable to a team sport. The dynamics of what makes you successfula re completely diferent. there's no team salary strucure, no need to work with others, etc. And, no we're not going to talk about relay teams or doubles tennis - it's still not close to the same thing. 1. The NBA is the newest of the big 4 leagues. Until Dr. J, Bird & Magic, it was the #4 league - it's now #3 and hockey won't likely ever catch it again. A major part of the issue is that the NBA is the best of the best for basketball, so ideally fans want the top talent there. so drafting young guys who aren't NBA-ready does a disservice to the fans, and the better players who don't get jobs. 2. Drafts exist in pro sports so that there is some method of talent distribution that inherently favors the worse teams. Back before baseball had a draft, signing bonus & team prestige was the big thing. Imagine if the NY Yankees took 1/4 of picks in the top 5 rounds of the baseball draft, would that be good for the sport, the league, or the players? No, no, and no. 3. Collective bargaining agreements in pro sports are specifically unfair to those who are trying to enter the league, but not usually because the owners want it that way. Look at what the NFL is looking into now - reducing the escalating rookie slalary structure. A major reason for this is that established players get less of the dollars relative to what they produce versus rookies, especially those who bust. The NFLPA is significantly behind this move in football, but it's being pushed by both sides. Owners don't want to waste money paying salary on people who don't do crap. the more money invested into players who bust, the less money to go to players who can play. 4. Having grown up in the projects, I'm more familiar with poverty than a lot of people. For some players it's more about taking care of family, but for others it's more about the rims. Here's the real issue with passing up college to go pro - you need to make it, and big. Most people I knew growing up have a very poor understanding of money and how to keep it. It's not about the best investing gains - it's about not losing the money in the first place, for starters. If you go spend it on a huge crib, that's not going to help you if you bust. You buy a nice house for the family to get them out of the ghetto, and into a good school system, that will help. 5. If you do go to college that 1-2 years can really help you in a couple ways. Ideally, schools will soon have a personal finance requirement in core curriculum - that will help students make better money decisions. If you get a degree, your earnings potential jumps up significantly. Admittedly, if you're not smart enough, you'll just end up getting people to take tests & write papers for you, and it won't help you much. It's a much better investment if you but than it it is if you make it. Of course, everyone thinks they will make it, so few play it safe and get some value out of an education.
|
|
|
Post by stevegamer on Jul 24, 2008 1:34:22 GMT -4
ehh... I think I disagree..... that is why there is always re-negotiation.... it might be unfair for players to call it unfair.... but I had nothing to do with the aggrement, so I can call it unfair... just like when 2 sides have an out-of-court settlement, outsiders can say that one side got an unfair settlement even though both agreed to it... ;D thus, I say RFA is unfair to the players..........AND........that teams are shooting themselves in the foot by acting outside the "intent" of the rule..... the intent of Restricted Free Agency was not for teams to only offer super low ball offers and say "this is your only offer, if you want fair value go negotiate with another team and we will match their offer".....b/c no other team is going to waste their time helping another teams player get more money....... btw, I also think the NFL's rookie pay is unfair to teams and veteran players, but it was also agreed upon in their CBA.... I'll cut you some slack and let it slide. Usually those outsiders are lawyers analyzing, and lawyers are not to be trusted - you can tell when they are lying, their lips are moving. I got that one straight from a lawyer. In case you wonder baout my biases on this, I've got (I think) some unique perspective on this: 1. I've been involved in labor negotiations on both sides of the table. Lawyers didn't like me much - I'm not adversarial enough for their taste - whether I was management or labor. 2. I grew up a welfare kid from the projects, where my mom was a disabled single parent, no child support, and I was it for the family's hopes - although it was only me, no other kids. 3. I've played ball with some very obscure foreign/minor league "pros" - one of whom I was shocked had a pro career. 4. I've been offered large sums of money to take tests for people. I could've made a nice chunk of change in HS taking SAT's - and that doesn't count college.
|
|
|
Post by greatmustachio on Jul 24, 2008 8:57:58 GMT -4
It's always good to know that stats do not tell the whole story. Both Diaw and Bargnani are important players for there teams in their way. And Bargnani will become a great 6th man now with Bosh and O'Neal starting. You can't take stats and just say a player with 13 ppg is better than one with 10 ppg like it's a god givin' fact. But I guess thats just how you see things Exactly both of them wont even start next season. If they were born American players neither of them would crack the top 100 of jersey sales in Europe, let alone the top ten. Well, since you say they aren't good because they don't start, that makes your beloved Bynum a very bad player. He won't start next season either. I'm not here to argue about those two, I just want to show you that stats and the Starting 5 do not make a good baller. Plus, they will most certainly play the shit out of us on the court, who are we to tell they are horrible? oO
|
|
|
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Jul 24, 2008 10:40:02 GMT -4
Exactly both of them wont even start next season. If they were born American players neither of them would crack the top 100 of jersey sales in Europe, let alone the top ten. Well, since you say they aren't good because they don't start, that makes your beloved Bynum a very bad player. He won't start next season either. I'm not here to argue about those two, I just want to show you that stats and the Starting 5 do not make a good baller. Plus, they will most certainly play the shit out of us on the court, who are we to tell they are horrible? oO 1) Bynum is starting .... Bynum, Gasol, Odom, Bryant, Fisher is the starting lineup 2) The point is they are not top ten players and obviously their nationalist origin plays a role in their popularity in Europe. www.nba.com/raptors/news/bargnanijersey_100407.htmlThe real puzzling thing is, why the hell is Dirk not on the list? He's the best European in the game today. Does the rest of Europe still hate the Germans?
|
|
|
Post by greatmustachio on Jul 24, 2008 11:02:22 GMT -4
They do.... I must know, I'm German
|
|
|
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Jul 24, 2008 14:16:33 GMT -4
They do.... I must know, I'm German LOL no offense was intended its just weird that he doesn't crack the top ten in Europe. This is totally off topic but how do you think that Obama speech went over in Germany?
|
|
|
Post by greatmustachio on Jul 24, 2008 15:42:28 GMT -4
Well, it's kind of a tradition for american presidents (or candidates in this matter) to come to Berlin and hold speeches. I think there was a debate on Obama not caring of Europe and personally I think that the speech was nothing special, just some quick words that I probably heard a while ago and will most definetly here anytime soon again. Common things... Nontheless, he was here and was not cursed by the majority. Something the current US president would dream about
|
|
|
Post by Beast Mode (lilsims) on Jul 24, 2008 16:47:32 GMT -4
hoopshype.com/Let the free for all begin. And keep in mind this is just the very begining. Let these guys go over and have sucess financially and come back and say it wasn't so bad. Let these guys get the great contracts they can walk away from at any point, and not be stuck in like the NBA. Times are a changing
|
|
|
Post by Kobe Dominates! on Jul 24, 2008 17:10:16 GMT -4
hoopshype.com/Let the free for all begin. And keep in mind this is just the very begining. Let these guys go over and have sucess financially and come back and say it wasn't so bad. Let these guys get the great contracts they can walk away from at any point, and not be stuck in like the NBA. Times are a changing I'm more concerned with the chatter mid page that the Lakers are considering bringing back Kwame Brown. :shudder:
|
|