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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2005 2:02:31 GMT -4
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Post by Jogo on Sept 8, 2005 2:08:06 GMT -4
If that happens, I would kill Danny Ainge and I'm not even a Celtics fan.
HATE that trade for the Celtics, HATE!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2005 2:16:32 GMT -4
Yeah - this almost rivals the deal of Baron Davis for a roll of toilet paper
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Post by Jogo on Sept 8, 2005 2:24:17 GMT -4
But at least Baron was injury prone and the team wasn't anywhere near the playoffs for a few seasons. Not to mention he was unhappy. Same with Carter.
This makes no sense at all. Paul has been nothing but a great pro and the team was actually looking good with all those youngsters. Paul could be a great role model to them. Not to mention he isn't old yet and a top swingman in the league. You just don't trade someone who is a franchise player for so long, for this. This is still a rumor but if it's true I would go after Danny Ainge.
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Post by "Three Time" on Sept 8, 2005 2:26:26 GMT -4
guess they are ready for a total youth movement. i need to make some calls and find out if this is true but its 1 am. ill have to wait till tomarrow
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Post by rjstew94 on Sept 8, 2005 2:27:19 GMT -4
Doesn't seem like a real bad deal. Celts need to do something obviously Pierce hasn't made them anything but a .500 team. I've heard he's also got a bad attitude.
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Post by "Three Time" on Sept 8, 2005 2:30:50 GMT -4
and giving away your best player for nothing will make you over .500
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Post by Jogo on Sept 8, 2005 2:43:14 GMT -4
Andre Miller = Loser
Nene = Overated
I hate this trade and it's the first time I heard about a bad attitude. And I follow the Celtics quite a bit.
I just hate GMs that do this to a franchise player. Do they even think about the fans? They are used to love Paul, they go to the games wearing his shirt. He is there for his whole carreer. He could even be traded for a better player and it would still be wrong cause you've seen Paul grow. I've been there. My first favourite player in the NBA was Tim Hardaway and because of that I was a Golden State fan. When they trade him, I just couldn't feel the same about them. A got really mad about it.
That's also how I would feel if they had traded Dirk for Shaq last season. I know that Dallas might have become a better team but if you are a Dallas fan for the last few years you've learned to love Dirk and hate Shaq. And being a fan is all about the heart. I know that being closer to a team makes you think more about the team and not the players and I'm very far from anyteam but let's be honest. The players are the "idols". Not the coachs or the GMs. And if your idol gets trade even if it is a good trade, you don't get to love the team anymore. I'm sure that happened to Jason to when he saw that J Will got traded from Memphis.
GMs have to think more with the head and less with the heart than the fans but they have to make sure it's really a good trade because afterall fans are the ones that buy tickets. And this for sure isn't a hell of trade. Not even a ok one.
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Post by "Three Time" on Sept 8, 2005 3:10:08 GMT -4
i hate the nuggets so bad. esp coach karl
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Post by LionsPat23 on Sept 8, 2005 3:16:21 GMT -4
Andre Miller = Loser Nene = Overated I hate this trade and it's the first time I heard about a bad attitude. And I follow the Celtics quite a bit. I just hate GMs that do this to a franchise player. Do they even think about the fans? They are used to love Paul, they go to the games wearing his shirt. He is there for his whole carreer. He could even be traded for a better player and it would still be wrong cause you've seen Paul grow. I've been there. My first favourite player in the NBA was Tim Hardaway and because of that I was a Golden State fan. When they trade him, I just couldn't feel the same about them. A got really mad about it. That's also how I would feel if they had traded Dirk for Shaq last season. I know that Dallas might have become a better team but if you are a Dallas fan for the last few years you've learned to love Dirk and hate Shaq. And being a fan is all about the heart. I know that being closer to a team makes you think more about the team and not the players and I'm very far from anyteam but let's be honest. The players are the "idols". Not the coachs or the GMs. And if your idol gets trade even if it is a good trade, you don't get to love the team anymore. I'm sure that happened to Jason to when he saw that J Will got traded from Memphis. GMs have to think more with the head and less with the heart than the fans but they have to make sure it's really a good trade because afterall fans are the ones that buy tickets. And this for sure isn't a hell of trade. Not even a ok one. you go girl!
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2005 9:33:51 GMT -4
This makes no sense at all. Paul has been nothing but a great pro and the team was actually looking good with all those youngsters. Paul could be a great role model to them. Not to mention he isn't old yet and a top swingman in the league. You just don't trade someone who is a franchise player for so long, for this. This is still a rumor but if it's true I would go after Danny Ainge. We disagree here. Pierce had arguably the best season of his career last year and still didn't deserve to make the Eastern Conference All-Star team. Simply put, at best, he's one of the best 15-20 players in the NBA, but that's arguable as well. I don't believe Pierce would be a great role model, as I watch about 50 Celtics games a year on TV. He looks noticeably to be a bit bored, knowing that the Celtics don't have a chance to seriously compete for a championship right now. I'm not convinced Pierce can be a franchise player. He's a very good player yes, but I consider a guy like Duncan, James and Iverson to be franchise players...not Pierce. To me, he's a definite step below these three. The Celtics don't have much of an inside presence, and Nene could help there. He's never logged heavy minutes because of Camby and Martin and with 35+ minutes per game, who know what he could do. The Celtics also have almost nothing but inexperience (Delonte West and Marcus Banks) at point guard, and Miller would most certainly help there. Gary Payton was a nice stopgap, but Miller could be around for several years. To me, this is a deal that must be made. The Celtics could be pleased winning 40-50 games this season with another first round exit in the playoffs with Pierce, or they could take a chance with these two players who fill two big needs and see what happens. This is the same thing with the Antoine Walker trade. Everyone criticized Ainge for making it, but he had the guts to do it. Also, the Celtics would have kept winning 45 games with Pierce and Walker and never would have taken a step forward. Ainge took a chance, knowing that Walker's presence hurt the team as much as it helped, and now I think in a year or two (at most), the Celtics will be better off for it. To me, I like Pierce, but I've grown a bit tired of his cavalier attitude and less than insatiable desire to dive for loose balls and be a leader (do you remember Game 6 of last year's playoff?). I just think that it's time to now take a chance on the Celtics future, instead of standing pat. Pierce's departure has long been rumored, and maybe it's time for a change.
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2005 9:34:56 GMT -4
Is Real GM usually reliable? I haven't read about Pierce's eminent trade anywhere else.
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Post by Jogo on Sept 8, 2005 13:36:05 GMT -4
The only thing Danny Ainge has done well is drafting. With luck and good scouting he managed to have 2 very good drafts and that's the only reason the future looks good. Trading Walker wasn't good at all (if he was so bad to the team why did he went back to get him??). The team had just made the conference finals the previous year. Did it get any better? No, not until they went and got him back. Not even a good trade financially as LaFrentz contract is even worse and still running. Yeah, great move, just because you didn't win, lets get a few steps back. And if you mean giving Walker to the Heat for free I also disagree but I guess him being a FA had something to do with it. They would probably lose Walker anyway. And now Pierce for this? You say Pierce is not as good as Iverson, Duncan or Lebron so he isn't a franchise player. Sure he isn't as good and I might add TMac and Kobe, Amare etc but is that such a bad thing? He isn't as good as MVP nº1, MVP nº2 or MVP nº3 so lets trade him for a disappointing PG and an overated big men who is decent and has some potencial but isn't great. If you need frontcourt help, at least get Kenyon Martin (although I'm not his biggest fan either). For Nene you probably just need Ricky Davis. I don't understand why you are defending Ainge or this trade but it must that "I'll stick with my team no matter what" thing. You have to know that this ain't good. It's the Celtics damn. You can rebuild and still look decent. I thought that was what they were doing. I'm sure that you as fan will be happy with a record of 30-52. And even if they were to trade Pierce I've heard much better rumors than this.
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Post by Jogo on Sept 8, 2005 13:56:34 GMT -4
Celtics are off the hook. This is already being called a false rumor. Usually RealGM wiretap is reliable. Guess not this time.
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2005 14:21:58 GMT -4
The only thing Danny Ainge has done well is drafting. With luck and good scouting he managed to have 2 very good drafts and that's the only reason the future looks good. Of course it is - it's one of the few things he's been able to do in his brief time in charge of the Celtics. Trading Walker wasn't good at all (if he was so bad to the team why did he went back to get him??). The team had just made the conference finals the previous year. Did it get any better? No, not until they went and got him back. Not even a good trade financially as LaFrentz contract is even worse and still running. Yeah, great move, just because you didn't win, lets get a few steps back. Also very easy to answer. If they'd kept Walker, he would have continued to shoot 30 footers with no conscience and held the team back with the young players they brought in. Walker was brought back because he was a free agent at year's end and he could put some fannies in the seats for the playoff run. There was never any thought by Boston to re-signing him. Trading him was a very good move as it cleared the way for Ainge to set his own regime. They needed LaFrentz, as they were desperate for a big man who could play. Mark Blount evidently forgot how to play, so the LaFrentz acquisition proved to be essential as he started at center over Blount, for the majority of the year. Trading Walker was necessary because if they kept him, Jefferson never would have played and not only would the franchise have stagnated, it never would have advanced. With Walker, the team never would have made the conference finals again - the year they did, they were undeserving of that and the East was quite weak. You say Pierce is not as good as Iverson, Duncan or Lebron so he isn't a franchise player. Sure he isn't as good and I might add TMac and Kobe, Amare etc but is that such a bad thing? He isn't as good as MVP nº1, MVP nº2 or MVP nº3 so lets trade him for a disappointing PG and an overated big men who is decent and has some potencial but isn't great. If you need frontcourt help, at least get Kenyon Martin (although I'm not his biggest fan either). For Nene you probably just need Ricky Davis. Since Martin was traded for three first round draft picks, obviously the Celtics couldn't have gotten Martin. So that's irrelevant. And Davis certainly wouldn't have been enough for Nene. Few look at him as overrated, since he's still young with little experience. We simply disagree wildly on Andre Miller, so I'm not sure what discussion we can have there. I see, in the right situation, that he could average 15ppg and 8-9apg and get back to his Cleveland days. I think that can happen in Boston if he's enabled to run the show. I don't understand why you are defending Ainge or this trade but it must that "I'll stick with my team no matter what" thing. You have to know that this ain't good. It's the Celtics damn. You can rebuild and still look decent. I thought that was what they were doing. I'm sure that you as fan will be happy with a record of 30-52. And even if they were to trade Pierce I've heard much better rumors than this. I guess I'm mainly looking at the big picture. Ainge has proven why he deserves to be given a bit of a leash with this team and rebuilding is the way to do it. They aren't going to make one great trade and become championship contenders and they aren't willing to tank for more ping pong balls either when they don't have to. I can't see why the Celtics won't look decent this year if they do get Nene and Miller. They have a terrific core and I can't see them possibly winning just 30 games unless they get riddled with injuries. I'm not sure how you're seeing that to be honest. Also, what other rumors have you heard about Pierce that haven't been laughably one sided (like Tyson Chandler, Luol Deng and a 1st round pick for Pierce, for example)? Pierce's market, I don't think, is what you think it is. He has stressed that he doesn't want to be a leader, and constantly deferred to Walker when Walker was here, for interviews. That is another reason why Walker was brought back - to make Pierce more comfortable. That said, Miller is a leader which is simply what the Celtics need for such a young team. I think this move is fantastic if they can get a little more than Nene and Miller, maybe a first round pick or another player that can contribute immediately. I can't see Pierce leading them to a championship, but that's me, but we disagree. Disagreements are what make discussions like this fun. To call Ainge completely wrong, not only before the trade has been announced, but before it's been given a chance seems a bit shortsighted to me though.
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