Seattle, Baltimore trade

[BigThunder]

I was just wondering what other people thought about the Bedard 4 Jones trade? Obviously Seattle is thinking about the present and Baltimore about the future. But I've read up on Bedard and he's had some injury problems. If he's healthy and plays like he did in the 2nd half he could put the M's in the playoffs but even with that could they really have a chance against NYY, BOS, DET?

[kidtwentytwo]

I think it happened a long time ago :-)

I think both teams got what they wanted. All pitchers have injury problems at some point in their careers and Bedard's isn't something like a shoulder or elbow. The Mariners pen doesn't look all that great outside of Putz...so they may have to push Bedard into more innings than he's ever had to pitch. BTW, you're leaving out my pick for the WS...the Indians :-)

[Deleted]

Solid deal for both teams, but I think the M's may have given up too much if Jones develops into what he's supposed to. Bedard is a quality pitcher, but has only been for a couple years. Pitching is so up and down it's basically a crapshoot other than the top 10 or so, and I don't think Bedard has proven enough to be put into that category yet.

I think at best the M's get a playoff berth, but I don't think they can compete with the Tigers or Red Sox in the playoffs.

[chang]

Being an Orioles fan, for the short term, it sucks cause we'll probably lose 125 games but for the long term, I love it.

Bedard does have injury concerns but I think it's partly cause he was overworked here with Mazzone who makes you pitch early after a start. I also think keeping him in for such long innings overworked his arm.

As for Jones, him and Markakis in the outfield will be sick for the next few years. We also have Wieters, Reimold, Rowell, & Snyder (if they all develop), our lineup will be productive. I think we got some quality pitchers too. I think the future is fairly bright (getting over the Yankees & Red Sox humps will always be hard).

[Beast Mode (lilsims)]

I don't think the M's overpaid for one huge fact, and that's Felix Hernandez. He's a super star in the waiting, but had way too much pressure on him as the face of the pitching staff. He is only 20, and wasn't ready to have that pressure put on him. Adding EB to the team, now takes that pressure off of Felix so he can now grow at a normal pace into the next Pedro.

I also think it wss a great move for the O's, but I will always take pitching over fielding any day of the week.

[Seattle Slough]

Love this deal for my Mariners, for one, how many of our specs have turnever out great in the last decade? Arod thats about it, all these other guys we had that were suppose to be the shit, sucked dick. I did like jones, but we get one of the best pitchers in the AL and he is a lefty and strikes guys out.

Mariners were right in the division last year until the last month, when our best part of the team(Bullpen) got tired, adding Bedard and Silva will help keep the bullpen strong all year. Our bullpen is good by the way outside of Putz, just young. Morrow had an ERA under 4 last year and was a rookie, rowland-smith had an ERA under 3, O'Flarety was fairly decent, and we have some young arms that should fill in nicely that should have played last year, but our bullpen was very deep.

Bedard has dropped his ERA each of the last three seasons and continues to get better. His injury problems are hogwash, thats what physicals are for buddy. Teams dont just pass guys through like you can sneek weed through the airport, that much money involved, they check every aspect of the player. Thats why the trade took so long to get done, because Baltimore wanted a clause stating if any of the Mariners fail physicals the trade is void, cause Jones accidently said he was traded already, whe he wasn't.

[Deleted]

I don't think you can put "injury concerns" and "hogwash" in the same sentence when talking about pitchers.
It doesn't matter how he looks during his physical, it matters how he looks after another 200+ innings go onto his arm. Then when another 400+, then 600+ etc. You never know when a pitcher will break down.

[Seattle Slough]

True, but regarding my defense, was just stating that he isn't injured now from what O's was saying.

[Mogwai Mode]

I think the Ms overpaid for a great pitcher but not one that's going to put them over the top. They are still the 2nd best team in the division behind the Angels and the 6th best team in the AL behind Boston, New York, Detroit, Cleveland and LAA. While they do have a shot at the playoffs, anything less than that would be a huge disappointment. And if Bedard ends up leaving in 2 years without the Ms having won anything it would be a big blow to the organization.

On the flip side. The Orioles got a better haul than the Twins got for Santana. Jones, is at the very least going to be a solid MLB regular, but has the chance to be a perennial All-Star. Tillman is going to start jumping up prospect lists and could be in the top 30 next season. Sherrill is a great reliever, who absolutely dominates left hander batters. Mickolio is MLB ready, and has a ceiling of a solid set-up guy. Butler, has talent when he's healthy.

Granted prospects don't always work out, but they still have value. I don't think the M's maximized the value of these prospects as they are more than just one piece (Bedard) away from being a true contender.

As for the comment about the M's pen. It's still one of the best in the league, especially if Mark Lowe is able to make a comeback. The only reason the Ms felt comfortable including Sherrill is because O'Flarethy and RRS are very capable LHP. I'm more worried about the M's lineup and defense.

[kidtwentytwo]

Teams dont just pass guys through like you can sneek weed through the airport,

this comment should not be ignored

I'm not sure how you can say that the Mariners pen is one of the best in the league. Putz is great, but there's little else that's definate coming into the season. O'Flaherty was alright and got some vulture wins last year. Morrow has great potential but had control problems. I like Rowland-Smith too, but I've heard they're trying to move him (and/or Morrow) into the rotation. Ultimately, I think they want Morrow in the rotation. You definately aren't relying on Arthur Rhodes, Chris "hang em high" Reitsma, and Horrible-ratio Ramirez.
I think they definately have the potential to be good...but coming into the season middle relief has got to be one of the teams biggest question mark.

[Mogwai Mode]

kidtwentytwo said:

Teams dont just pass guys through like you can sneek weed through the airport,

this comment should not be ignored

I'm not sure how you can say that the Mariners pen is one of the best in the league. Putz is great, but there's little else that's definate coming into the season. O'Flaherty was alright and got some vulture wins last year. Morrow has great potential but had control problems. I like Rowland-Smith too, but I've heard they're trying to move him (and/or Morrow) into the rotation. Ultimately, I think they want Morrow in the rotation. You definately aren't relying on Arthur Rhodes, Chris "hang em high" Reitsma, and Horrible-ratio Ramirez.
I think they definately have the potential to be good...but coming into the season middle relief has got to be one of the teams biggest question mark.

With Bedard the 5 man rotation is all filled out (Bedard, Felix, Batista, Washburn, Silva), so RRS and Morrow (unfortunately) are going to be in the pen. Morrow should be back in AAA, developing as a starter. But with the way things stand, how is the Ms bullpen not one of the best? They were one of the best last year and while they lose Sherrill, it's reasonable to expect O'Flarethy, RRS, Morrow, and Green to develop a little more. Plus, you can't rule out a return of Lowe.

[kidtwentytwo]

guess we'll find out about that bullpen pretty soon

[Mogwai Mode]

Sucks to lose Putz but at least it's not an arm injury. I'm more worried about this offense than I am about the bullpen. Even with the perplexing call up of Corocan, it's still a solid pen IMO.

[Seattle Slough]

we don't have morrow yet either, once he is back, that will bolster our pen.