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Post by Derek Fisher on Mar 8, 2013 20:29:51 GMT -4
Yeah the East is downright awful but at the same time he did have to beat a Lebron James-led team to make the Finals, and Dwight's presence inside was the main reason Orlando got past them.
That is open to debate. Current Dwight is still a fringe All-star and any center capable of making the ASG automatically gets a max so he'll get paid accordingly. Health is obviously going to be key and its tough to foresee how he is health wise 2-3 years from now.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Mar 9, 2013 3:07:57 GMT -4
Kobe Bryant is not human.
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Post by rogworld1991 on Mar 9, 2013 9:34:06 GMT -4
I'm gonna jump into the conversation about here.
The thing with him also has to be stated that the dude is just now getting into form. He had a back injury and din't condition all off season. He still has injuries and this being his worst year of his career since like 2005, considering the fact that he is averaging 16 points a game on the 6th best FG%, leading the league in rebounds, and 5th in the league in blocks, its gotta be promising for when he does get healthy.
I really hope he comes back, because I think we have the makings of a championship contender if we can have a full off season with Dwight healthy and Pau healthy, and Kobe and Nash there, and those four can figure things out. Then we can win it all(also if we can find some way to get some better depth).
Dwight is a douche-bag at times, but his talent outweighs that.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Mar 9, 2013 16:13:58 GMT -4
I'm not necessarily as high on that core as you are. Getting Dwight back healthy would obviously be a HUGE boost but I'm not seeing a championship team. Steve Nash is playing a reduced role and still with the same dreadful defense (then again if you have a healthy Dwight, that defense isn't as bad an issue but when he's on the bench...) and Pau Gasol has been "struggling" for 2+ seasons now, how much longer can you say "if Pau this" and "if Pau that"? Plus that bench is just awful. The Lakers are on a great run (since they started running their offense through Kobe and not Nash) but without depth they're going to be in major trouble in the playoffs, healthy or not.
I do, however, agree with your assessment of Dwight. Very good chance he comes back next season in top 5 player and best center in the league form.
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Post by rogworld1991 on Mar 9, 2013 23:54:43 GMT -4
Kobe is still Kobe, we've all seen it this season. Kobe and Dwight is a championship core if they can get along. Add in an all world shooter(Nash, in a D-Fish role, with way better passing and way better shooting), and a guy who may be "struggling for 2+ seasons" but is still one of the most skilled bigs in the league, and give them an off season all together, and thats a championship team. Especially if Dwight is the defensive force he was in Orlando. Its not going to happen this year, its just not, but I really think Kobe and Dwight have an off season to gel ON THE COURT and you'll see a totally different team next year.
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Post by rogworld1991 on Mar 9, 2013 23:55:51 GMT -4
And lets not rule out Kupchak pulling off some rape deal like Pau for Kevin Love or something like that.
We all deny that it'll happen, but we've seen it way too many times before to rule it out.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Mar 11, 2013 0:12:35 GMT -4
Just too many "ifs" for me to buy that personally. It could happen but I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Mar 11, 2013 0:15:03 GMT -4
And lets not rule out Kupchak pulling off some rape deal like Pau for Kevin Love or something like that. We all deny that it'll happen, but we've seen it way too many times before to rule it out. Lol literally no trade value on that roster to make any sort of impact in the market. I think Pau gets the amnesty.
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Post by rogworld1991 on Mar 11, 2013 1:10:19 GMT -4
Yep. See: Javaras Crittenton and an unknown international spaniard for Pau.
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Post by Bish on Mar 11, 2013 2:53:09 GMT -4
And lets not rule out Kupchak pulling off some rape deal like Pau for Kevin Love or something like that. We all deny that it'll happen, but we've seen it way too many times before to rule it out. Lol literally no trade value on that roster to make any sort of impact in the market. I think Pau gets the amnesty. After all the interesting stuff you've said in this thread, Pau getting amnestied is by far the most ridiculous. There's zero chance that happens.
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Post by stevegamer on Mar 11, 2013 3:31:53 GMT -4
I agree Dwight is a douchebag. Unfortunately, he's also a clubhouse cancer, and there's really no way to sugarcoat that. We saw what happen when the team wasn't the #1 team int heir conference: he threw his coach under the bus, and was playing I want out, I want to stay games. He didn't want to go to Chicago to play with Rose - I think the reason is Rose was younger than he. I think he wanted to be "the guy" in LA when Kobe is done, and he'd be at best a co-anchor with Rose on the Bulls. One could argue marketing opportunities, but Chicago is really not a low-visibility team.
I agree his talent level outweighs that for most teams, but you've got to realize that if you have what looks to be a core on the upswing, and already have one top-tier talent , it's a risk, that he could pollute the waters enough to screw up what you are building.
And there was no "unknown international Spaniard" in the deal for Pau Gasol. There was a "known international Spaniard" with an unknown talent level who was thought to have a talent level beneath his brother, but should've been seen as likely a servicable NBA player at worst. Unless you're thinking there was somebody involved in making the deal who had no clue that the Gasols were brothers, and they couldn't have researched anything.
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Post by Derek Fisher on Mar 11, 2013 4:44:01 GMT -4
Yep. See: Javaras Crittenton and an unknown international spaniard for Pau. Thats nice and all except I mean they literally have no trade value whatsoever, like not even in the smallest form of trade value. Crittenton was a mid-first rounder in a deep draft and Marc Gasol was an intriguing stash 2nd round pick, were they worth a multi-time All-Star? Hell no but they were at least small assets that could be used as sweetners. Yet the Lakers don't even have that, which makes their prospects in the trade market not promising in the least. If Kupchak wants to make an impact he'll have to do in the 2nd round of the draft or via free agency, and history has shown he's not very good at either one of those (just look at how poor his benches have been over the years despite having the LA factor to lure free agents). His strength is negotiating in trades and thats probably what has made him one of the best GM's in the NBA, but his hands are tied there for reasons stated above. Also pretty funny how the Lakers lost the deal in hindsight by giving away the best defensive center in the league haha. Lol literally no trade value on that roster to make any sort of impact in the market. I think Pau gets the amnesty. After all the interesting stuff you've said in this thread, Pau getting amnestied is by far the most ridiculous. There's zero chance that happens. Eh going to disagree there. He's scheduled to make $19,285,850 next season after being incredibly disappointing for 2 seasons now. If anything he has negative value (generally old big money players coming off an injury who also happen to be playing poorly = terrible trade value) especially with the WIDE majority of teams being extremely cap cautious since the heavy luxury taxes came into effect. IMO its a real possibility, I don't know how the Pau-Lakers relationship continues after this season.
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Post by rogworld1991 on Mar 11, 2013 8:44:13 GMT -4
I agree Dwight is a douchebag. Unfortunately, he's also a clubhouse cancer, and there's really no way to sugarcoat that. We saw what happen when the team wasn't the #1 team int heir conference: he threw his coach under the bus, and was playing I want out, I want to stay games. He didn't want to go to Chicago to play with Rose - I think the reason is Rose was younger than he. I think he wanted to be "the guy" in LA when Kobe is done, and he'd be at best a co-anchor with Rose on the Bulls. One could argue marketing opportunities, but Chicago is really not a low-visibility team. I agree his talent level outweighs that for most teams, but you've got to realize that if you have what looks to be a core on the upswing, and already have one top-tier talent , it's a risk, that he could pollute the waters enough to screw up what you are building. And there was no "unknown international Spaniard" in the deal for Pau Gasol. There was a "known international Spaniard" with an unknown talent level who was thought to have a talent level beneath his brother, but should've been seen as likely a servicable NBA player at worst. Unless you're thinking there was somebody involved in making the deal who had no clue that the Gasols were brothers, and they couldn't have researched anything. I didn't mean unknown as in no one knew who he was, but that he was second round pick and no one thought he'd become an all star. He shouldn't have been the headliner in that deal is what I'm saying. In hindsight, great trade, but it was terrible at the time.
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Post by Bish on Mar 11, 2013 13:06:54 GMT -4
Eh going to disagree there. He's scheduled to make $19,285,850 next season after being incredibly disappointing for 2 seasons now. If anything he has negative value (generally old big money players coming off an injury who also happen to be playing poorly = terrible trade value) especially with the WIDE majority of teams being extremely cap cautious since the heavy luxury taxes came into effect. IMO its a real possibility, I don't know how the Pau-Lakers relationship continues after this season. If you really think he has negative value then you're not paying much attention to the NBA. No team in their right mind would get rid of a player at Gasol's talent level for nothing. Go look at the list of players who have been amnestied. It's all garbage players with horrible contracts and Luis Scola, who is okay. If they amnesty anyone, it'll be Artest or maybe Steve Blake. Gasol certainly may get traded, but his value is lower than it should be right now because he's been forced to play on the perimeter most of the year. But there is zero chance he gets amnestied. The Lakers are dumb sometimes, but not that dumb.
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Post by phdsims on Mar 11, 2013 18:39:44 GMT -4
oh man, dash awakes from his study-coma and really livened up this thread. I need to join in here.
Pau won't get amnestied. But the Lakers are going to be motivated to get rid of him, I think. Unless Pau can all of a sudden be a 3 point shooter and guard quicker PF's, then he just doesn't make sense next to Dwight. You know, if the Lakers could get some value from that cap space (maybe like a FA that would sign if they just would reduce their cap number), then I could see Pau being an option.
Either way, he was terrible on the court this year. And I think his best days are behind him.
...
I'm back to 100% Laker hater this season.
In the past few seasons, I started to cheer for them some, because the Heat were my number one team to Hate.
This year, I've decided there is enough room in my basement of Hate of both fucking teams. Fuck them both. I can say that, because there is a miniscule chance the Lakers get to play the Heat in the Finals.
This year, I'm cheering for Pacers, Thunder, Spurs, Clippers, Grizzlies, Denver, and Celtics come April. Just need 1 of those teams to get hot at the right time and beat the Heat. C'mon Pacers in the conference finals!!!!
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