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Post by nferg18 on Dec 14, 2009 17:49:25 GMT -4
i like them getting halladay but is he that much better then cliff lee. I think they should keep both if they can.
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Post by Steve on Dec 14, 2009 17:59:25 GMT -4
It sucks and makes no sense to me if Drabek or Dominic Brown are involved. If they aren't, then I could possibly see why they did it, but for fuck sakes how much better can you get in the postseason then what Cliff lee did?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2009 18:18:33 GMT -4
idk why they'd want to trade Lee after what he did for them last year. They should have tried to move Drabek and Brown to get Halladay and keep Lee.
Also, Lackey to the Red Sox is a pretty nice signing for them.
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Post by stevegamer on Dec 14, 2009 18:59:41 GMT -4
Rumor is that Lee wouldn't sign an extension - they didn't want to lose an ace, so they dealt him for a different ace. And is does make them more L-R balanced..
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Post by Seattle Slough on Dec 14, 2009 21:14:37 GMT -4
Lee coming to the Mariners bitches. Going to have the best 1-2 atop the order and rotation.
Reason Lee isn't staying is because he is a FA at the end of next year and says he wants market value, Phillies don't like to offer pitchers more than 4 years with that type of money, so they would rather have halladay and get him extended for three years.
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Post by Steve on Dec 15, 2009 13:02:40 GMT -4
Lee coming to the Mariners bitches. Going to have the best 1-2 atop the order and rotation. Reason Lee isn't staying is because he is a FA at the end of next year and says he wants market value, Phillies don't like to offer pitchers more than 4 years with that type of money, so they would rather have halladay and get him extended for three years. Have fun getting him for 1 year...you guys won't win the AL West anyways untily you get 3-4 hitter...plain and simple. Also, yeah, I'm fine with it now because Lee was being a bitch about it. Halladay is the best pitcher, he's making less than what he could have, and we keep him for at least 4 years. I'm actually okay with Drabek and Taylor going as well. Taylor is like brown, but not nearly the potential Brown has. And Drabek is getting flipped for Aumont who sounds like he's just as good as Drabek if not better. |
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Post by Erbes on Dec 15, 2009 15:40:58 GMT -4
Mariners clearly win this deal. They now have Felix and Cliff as 1-2 punch. That rivals CC-AJ, Becks-Lester, and thats about it. The Angels have the offense, but no pitching now. As it stands they have Saunders, Santana, Weaver, and Kazmir - those are all decent pitchers but they arent good enough to win a division; you need an ace to take the ball to stop a losing streak and they dont have it. In fact, the Rangers are going to be even better this year and could push the Halos to the basement, right next to those Athletics.
I agree with Steve that they need to add a bat, and Jason Bay would be great, but I think the Mets have him locked up. So some minor guys they could go after could be Cust, Delgado, bring back Beltre... theres a lot of options they could bring in.
I dont think the Phils needed to make this trade. People knew they wouldnt be able to keep him and Halladay, but is Halladay that much of an upgrade over Lee? Probably not. Plus Lee took them deep into the playoffs and proved he could pitch in big situations. Halladay is an injury risk and although great has been on the DL quite a few times. Plus giving up two great prospects is tough in this day and age.
Aumont, according to some guys (Law, Olney, Heyman) say he is great, better than Drabek. Faster fastball, a bit better control, just a complete package. I dont know if you guys saw but the Blow Jays flipped Taylor for Brett Wallace to the A's. Another terrible deal. Taylor is MLB ready and the BJ's need an OF right now. Ricciardi left this team in a mess. Wells is a nothing guy, they have no catching, no starting pitching, and no MI. They really need everything. Which Im kind of happy about because it pretty much guarantees the Yankees about 15 wins this upcoming season and now we dont have to face Halladay!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 16:17:45 GMT -4
You're showing your East Coast bias. Beckett and Lester are both good but not great pitchers. Sabathia is elite, but Burnett isn't better than above average.
How do you put those guys ahead of Lincecum/Cain or Carpernter/Wainwright?
In my opinion the top three are:
1. Lincecum/Cain
2. Hernandez/Lee
3. Carpenter/Wainwright
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Post by nferg18 on Dec 15, 2009 17:17:21 GMT -4
dont forget webb/haren
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Post by nferg18 on Dec 15, 2009 17:20:45 GMT -4
and i still do see why the phillies go 1 year with halladay and lee, let lee walk to FA and collect 2 1st round picks. They still got good prospects back for lee and have a sick team for 1 season.
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Post by Erbes on Dec 15, 2009 17:50:09 GMT -4
You're showing your East Coast bias. Beckett and Lester are both good but not great pitchers. Sabathia is elite, but Burnett isn't better than above average. How do you put those guys ahead of Lincecum/Cain or Carpernter/Wainwright? In my opinion the top three are: 1. Lincecum/Cain 2. Hernandez/Lee 3. Carpenter/Wainwright Good point... I was talking AL teams but I definitely agree that Carpenter/Wainwright is up there. Not sold on Cain yet. Gives up way too many homers for that park. I think he gave up 22 last year and compare that to Carpenter (7), Lincecum (10), Wainwright (17), and Sabbathia (18), its just too many. He's definitely very good though. Burnett gave up 25 - way way too many, Beckett 25, and Lester 20. But you could argue that all three of those pitchers pitch in hitters park and pitch in the offense-laden AL, which would make Cain's 22 look even worse. For comparison's sake - Halladay gave up 22, Cliff Lee 17, and King Felix 15. Now homers given up isnt a great measure of how good a pitcher actually is but it shows they can keep the ball in the park and keep runs down. |
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Post by Beast Mode (lilsims) on Dec 15, 2009 17:53:18 GMT -4
M's destroy in this deal!
They give up above avg Reliever, and a good prospect catcher, and a good prospect fielder for a former CY Young pitcher....................... Even if Lee leaves Seattle after this season, we will get a nice compensation for him. He's only costing us 9 million bucks, and he may end up loving pitching at pitcher friendly Safeco, and want to sign an extension.
Not to mention the Angels have gotten much worse this off season IMO. You lose Lachey and don't replace him. And one of your best pitching prospects who would had replaced him died in an unfortunate car crash last season. They added Godzilla, but last i checked, he doesn't pitch.
The M's can still go after Beltre or Bay. Not too mention, this deal didn't cost us any of our top farm players, so we can still make trades and bring in another bat. We still have Morrow, tuissopo, Ackley (not that the M's would trade him)
Very happy with this move, and I'm sure more will be coming from now until the trade deadline
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 18:27:43 GMT -4
I didn't, but it's hard to put Webb in that group before seeing how he'll bounce back from that injury. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 18:31:58 GMT -4
You're showing your East Coast bias. Beckett and Lester are both good but not great pitchers. Sabathia is elite, but Burnett isn't better than above average. How do you put those guys ahead of Lincecum/Cain or Carpernter/Wainwright? In my opinion the top three are: 1. Lincecum/Cain 2. Hernandez/Lee 3. Carpenter/Wainwright Good point... I was talking AL teams but I definitely agree that Carpenter/Wainwright is up there. Not sold on Cain yet. Gives up way too many homers for that park. I think he gave up 22 last year and compare that to Carpenter (7), Lincecum (10), Wainwright (17), and Sabbathia (18), its just too many. He's definitely very good though. Burnett gave up 25 - way way too many, Beckett 25, and Lester 20. But you could argue that all three of those pitchers pitch in hitters park and pitch in the offense-laden AL, which would make Cain's 22 look even worse. For comparison's sake - Halladay gave up 22, Cliff Lee 17, and King Felix 15. Now homers given up isnt a great measure of how good a pitcher actually is but it shows they can keep the ball in the park and keep runs down. Call me crazy, but I think ERA is a better indicator of how well a pitcher can keep runs down, but you have a good point about the ballparks they play in. Interesting note - Lincecum didn't allow a homer at home all of last season. |
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Post by Seattle Slough on Dec 15, 2009 21:40:26 GMT -4
I might be biased about saying this cause I am a huge Mariners fan, but King Felix and Lee are the best 1-2 in the league. Not like I am just saying it though, I looked around the league, and there isn't anyone better really.
Lincecum is nasty and the best pitcher in the leagues, but cain doesn't make up enough to match felix and lee. Both are the Ace on pretty much any staff, unless they went to the Giants. Cain is good, don't get me wrong, just think Lee is older and better now, felix is young and better then Cain regardless.
M's need to resign Branyan at 1st or Nick Johnson, then add a decent OF, that isn't expensive and maybe one more arm. All in all, I would like the M's to have a shot at resigning lee and Felix, because that would be awesome to watch for years to me. So, that is why I don't want Bay or any other big money guy. Bay would be sick, but if we get him, that might mean later to Lee, who will be getting around a similar amount as Bay per year.
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