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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2008 23:36:24 GMT -4
If their gate is so much higher than they should be able to afford the cost of the stadium. Right?
If it didn't improve their attendance enough to pay for the stadium then it's a bad business decision. And I don't want to punish the players because one or two owners makes a bad business decision.
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Post by Kobe Dominates! on Dec 24, 2008 0:05:06 GMT -4
If their gate is so much higher than they should be able to afford the cost of the stadium. Right? If it didn't improve their attendance enough to pay for the stadium then it's a bad business decision. And I don't want to punish the players because one or two owners makes a bad business decision. The point is the Padres had a modest payroll and lost money on the year. Mores isn't being greedy and sitting on tens of millions of dollars of profit a year. Stadiums don't pay for themselves after a few years they are gigantic investments that are partly funded by the city for a reason. Installing a salary cap is not punishing the players, its putting the health of the league in the present and future first which should be the commisioners job. The salary cap could be determined the same way the NFL does. In a manner that is tied with league revenue so that % of money split between the owners and players now is maintained. While it would be worse for the Arods of the world it would be better for Joe Blow utility player as well as the league as a whole. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2008 0:46:52 GMT -4
If their gate is so much higher than they should be able to afford the cost of the stadium. Right? If it didn't improve their attendance enough to pay for the stadium then it's a bad business decision. And I don't want to punish the players because one or two owners makes a bad business decision. The point is the Padres had a modest payroll and lost money on the year. Mores isn't being greedy and sitting on tens of millions of dollars of profit a year. Maybe Mores isn't sitting on tens of millions of dollars in profit each year, but many owners are. |
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Post by db25 on Dec 24, 2008 10:12:39 GMT -4
The Yankees have always been "stacked" but for the last decade or so have nothing to show with it. I honestly am not that concerned even with the big signings, something always happens, either injuries or stupid player fights, they always end up doing way below what they should be doing. I'm still not big on their manager, didn't he get fired from the fricken Marlins a few years ago? Ouch. Dude, you know what you're talking about? He won the NL Manager of the year award...and it's not because he wasn't a damn good manager....the owner just hated him for some reason. Yes, it's crazy that players get all that dough for playing a game they love to play. You guys act like the yanks have this wrapped up...there no preseason favorites...the Phillies are the team to beat and until someone does that...I don't want to hear any of that shit. With the additions the Yanks have made they'll be considered the preseason fave's. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 24, 2008 11:12:09 GMT -4
Dude, you know what you're talking about? He won the NL Manager of the year award...and it's not because he wasn't a damn good manager....the owner just hated him for some reason. Yes, it's crazy that players get all that dough for playing a game they love to play. You guys act like the yanks have this wrapped up...there no preseason favorites...the Phillies are the team to beat and until someone does that...I don't want to hear any of that shit. With the additions the Yanks have made they'll be considered the preseason fave's. Which is ridiculous. They didn't win it all last year...the Phillies did. They're the team to beat. Plus, they play in easily the hardest division with 2 other powerhouses in the Rays and the Red Sox. LOL at Steve Phillips once again trying to make a team the favorite to win it all with the Yanks just getting Teix...he said the same thing last year with the Mets (when they got J. Santana) and they couldn't even make the playoffs. |
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Post by bballmstr32 on Dec 24, 2008 12:03:09 GMT -4
The Yanks are the team to beat easily.
We're talking about an 89 win team that underachieved and then addressed each of their problem areas this offseason.
Needed an ace (check, brought in a top 5 pitcher in baseball)
Needed to improve staff overall (check, the CC and AJ acquisitions and possibly resigning Andy)
Needed to add another pure hitter to put in the middle of the lineup (check, Marky Mark)
The Yankees now have (on paper):
the best pitching rotation in baseball
the best bullpen in baseball
the best closer in baseball
and a hell of an offensive lineup 1-9
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Post by bballmstr32 on Dec 24, 2008 12:07:15 GMT -4
I also think it is difficult for other people to criticize the Yankees' spending when their payroll for this upcoming season is still lower than it was last season.
What has changed is a lot of players are now off the payroll and Cashman has used that money much more wisely (which gives the appearance that they are buying every talented player).
No one complained about the Yankees payroll last season and that number is going to be the same this season.
While I agree that it is unfair (disclaimer, I am a Yankees fan if you guys haven't figured out), you can't blame the Yankees for going the extra mile and doing whatever is necessary to field the most competitive team that they can.
Personally, I think some steps need to be taken to lower the wage disparity between teams. I think teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc, should still be able to use their financial advantages though. I think one good step forward would be to put a salary scale (similar to the NBA) for the rookie draft. That would ensure that the worse teams get to keep their talented prospects at least until they hit FA.
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Post by chang on Dec 24, 2008 14:00:11 GMT -4
I think there should be a cap at 80 million but you can spend over as long as you pay 2 million (which would go to revenue sharing) for 1 million you spend over. The Yankees would be still able to spend like $30 million over and able to pay the $60 million tax.
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Post by Steve on Dec 26, 2008 16:40:34 GMT -4
The Yankees now have (on paper): the best pitching rotation in baseball the best bullpen in baseball the best closer in baseball and a hell of an offensive lineup 1-9 LOL |
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Post by Mogwai Mode on Dec 26, 2008 17:38:53 GMT -4
The Yanks are the team to beat easily. We're talking about an 89 win team that underachieved and then BOUGHT A PLAYOFF BERTH/CHAMPIONSHIP this offseason. Needed an ace (check, brought in a top 5 pitcher in baseball)Needed to improve staff overall (check, the CC and AJ acquisitions and possibly resigning Andy)Needed to add another pure hitter to put in the middle of the lineup (check, Marky Mark)The Yankees now have (on paper): the best pitching rotation in baseball - Possibly, depends on AJ's Health, Joba's and Hughes health and development the best bullpen in baseball - I don't see the justification in this the best closer in baseball - Papelbon is the best closer in baseball period, Marino is the best of the old closers and a hell of an offensive lineup 1-9 Fixed with comments. |
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Post by bballmstr32 on Dec 26, 2008 18:18:41 GMT -4
The Yanks are the team to beat easily. We're talking about an 89 win team that underachieved and then BOUGHT A PLAYOFF BERTH/CHAMPIONSHIP this offseason. Needed an ace (check, brought in a top 5 pitcher in baseball)Needed to improve staff overall (check, the CC and AJ acquisitions and possibly resigning Andy)Needed to add another pure hitter to put in the middle of the lineup (check, Marky Mark)The Yankees now have (on paper): the best pitching rotation in baseball - Possibly, depends on AJ's Health, Joba's and Hughes health and development the best bullpen in baseball - I don't see the justification in this the best closer in baseball - Papelbon is the best closer in baseball period, Marino is the best of the old closers and a hell of an offensive lineup 1-9 Fixed with comments. Papelbon is definitely not better than Rivera (as of last season). He probably will overtake Rivera, but there is no evidence yet to suggest that. Rivera had a .665 WHIP last season, while Papelbon had a .952 WHIP (obviously still impressive). Rivera also had a 1.40 ERA last season (better than Papelbon's 2.34 ERA). If that is not enough, Rivera only blew 1 save last season while Papelbon blew 5 saves. If you want to say that Papelbon is an elite closer, I will not argue against that. But in my opinion, Rivera is still the best closer as shown by those numbers. As far as the Yankees' rotation goes, I said that they have the best rotation "on paper." That means you assume everyone stays healthy (including AJ Burnett). Joba is already an ace and had he started all of last season, he would have been a CY Young candidate. He is THAT good. Watch him dominate this season as a starter. With said, the Yankees essentially have four aces in their rotation (CC, Burnett, Wang, Joba) when they are healthy. As far as the bullpen goes. I probably went too far by saying that the Yankees have the best bullpen in baseball, but they certainly have one of the best. Phil Coke is going to be a good lefty for them out of the bullpen (he was terrific last season). Aceves also pitched very well last season and he will be moved to the bullpen because of the acquisitions. Jonathan Albaladejo was also impressive last season and he will also be fighting for a bullpen spot. Marte is one of the best lefty specialists in baseball and he will also be in the pen. Then of course, there is Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras. Both of them had ERAs in the 3.00s and both of them were huge for the Yankees last season. Edwar had a WHIP of 1.229. If that is not enough, the Yankees also have a young arm in Robertson who showed flashes of greatness last season and many think he will be a good pitcher for the Yankees out of the bullpen. Add to that the fact that the Yankees have the top closer in baseball in Rivera and its easy to see that their bullpen is very deep and talented. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 26, 2008 21:36:57 GMT -4
Papelbon is definitely not better than Rivera (as of last season). He probably will overtake Rivera, but there is no evidence yet to suggest that. Rivera had a .665 WHIP last season, while Papelbon had a .952 WHIP (obviously still impressive). Rivera also had a 1.40 ERA last season (better than Papelbon's 2.34 ERA). If that is not enough, Rivera only blew 1 save last season while Papelbon blew 5 saves. If you want to say that Papelbon is an elite closer, I will not argue against that. But in my opinion, Rivera is still the best closer as shown by those numbers. As far as the Yankees' rotation goes, I said that they have the best rotation "on paper." That means you assume everyone stays healthy (including AJ Burnett). Joba is already an ace and had he started all of last season, he would have been a CY Young candidate. He is THAT good. Watch him dominate this season as a starter. With said, the Yankees essentially have four aces in their rotation (CC, Burnett, Wang, Joba) when they are healthy. As far as the bullpen goes. I probably went too far by saying that the Yankees have the best bullpen in baseball, but they certainly have one of the best. Phil Coke is going to be a good lefty for them out of the bullpen (he was terrific last season). Aceves also pitched very well last season and he will be moved to the bullpen because of the acquisitions. Jonathan Albaladejo was also impressive last season and he will also be fighting for a bullpen spot. Marte is one of the best lefty specialists in baseball and he will also be in the pen. Then of course, there is Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras. Both of them had ERAs in the 3.00s and both of them were huge for the Yankees last season. Edwar had a WHIP of 1.229. If that is not enough, the Yankees also have a young arm in Robertson who showed flashes of greatness last season and many think he will be a good pitcher for the Yankees out of the bullpen. Add to that the fact that the Yankees have the top closer in baseball in Rivera and its easy to see that their bullpen is very deep and talented. 1. JOBA is most certainly NOT AN ACE. The guy struggles to get through 6 innings or get through 3/4 of a season and you're going to sit here and tell me that he is an ace? Wow, I knew Yankee fans were idiots (they're just like the Met fans) 2. Wang is a very good #2...if you want to call 90 K's/ year good stuff then you're crazy. And if you want to go by ERA...a career 3.79 does not get you labeled an "ACE". 3. As an Ace you need to stay healthy (same case with Joba), but when has Burnett been a guy you can trust to go through a whole season? His career ERA is 3.81 which clearly makes him a #2. 4. That bullpen completely pales in compare to the Phillies...call me bias, but in the last 5 years, I know what it feels like to win a championship and I think I know when I see a better bullpen. You guys are obviously going to be good because you bought yourselves that. Be excited about buying yourself championships because I like to "earn" them. |
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Post by bballmstr32 on Dec 27, 2008 0:38:23 GMT -4
Papelbon is definitely not better than Rivera (as of last season). He probably will overtake Rivera, but there is no evidence yet to suggest that. Rivera had a .665 WHIP last season, while Papelbon had a .952 WHIP (obviously still impressive). Rivera also had a 1.40 ERA last season (better than Papelbon's 2.34 ERA). If that is not enough, Rivera only blew 1 save last season while Papelbon blew 5 saves. If you want to say that Papelbon is an elite closer, I will not argue against that. But in my opinion, Rivera is still the best closer as shown by those numbers. As far as the Yankees' rotation goes, I said that they have the best rotation "on paper." That means you assume everyone stays healthy (including AJ Burnett). Joba is already an ace and had he started all of last season, he would have been a CY Young candidate. He is THAT good. Watch him dominate this season as a starter. With said, the Yankees essentially have four aces in their rotation (CC, Burnett, Wang, Joba) when they are healthy. As far as the bullpen goes. I probably went too far by saying that the Yankees have the best bullpen in baseball, but they certainly have one of the best. Phil Coke is going to be a good lefty for them out of the bullpen (he was terrific last season). Aceves also pitched very well last season and he will be moved to the bullpen because of the acquisitions. Jonathan Albaladejo was also impressive last season and he will also be fighting for a bullpen spot. Marte is one of the best lefty specialists in baseball and he will also be in the pen. Then of course, there is Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras. Both of them had ERAs in the 3.00s and both of them were huge for the Yankees last season. Edwar had a WHIP of 1.229. If that is not enough, the Yankees also have a young arm in Robertson who showed flashes of greatness last season and many think he will be a good pitcher for the Yankees out of the bullpen. Add to that the fact that the Yankees have the top closer in baseball in Rivera and its easy to see that their bullpen is very deep and talented. 1. JOBA is most certainly NOT AN ACE. The guy struggles to get through 6 innings or get through 3/4 of a season and you're going to sit here and tell me that he is an ace? Wow, I knew Yankee fans were idiots (they're just like the Met fans) 2. Wang is a very good #2...if you want to call 90 K's/ year good stuff then you're crazy. And if you want to go by ERA...a career 3.79 does not get you labeled an "ACE". 3. As an Ace you need to stay healthy (same case with Joba), but when has Burnett been a guy you can trust to go through a whole season? His career ERA is 3.81 which clearly makes him a #2. 4. That bullpen completely pales in compare to the Phillies...call me bias, but in the last 5 years, I know what it feels like to win a championship and I think I know when I see a better bullpen. You guys are obviously going to be good because you bought yourselves that. Be excited about buying yourself championships because I like to "earn" them. 1. Please, Joba didn't last the whole season because the Yankees front office thought it would be a smart idea to start him in the bullpen and then make him a starter mid-season. Watch him this season when he begins the season as a starter and stays one the full season. You are calling me an idiot? Do you know what Joba did last season as a starter? Joba had an ERA in the 2.00s as a starter. Additionally, he had more Ks than innings pitched as a starter. Do you realize how good that is in the AL? Not even Phillies hero Cole Hamels had an ERA that low this season (he was over a 3.00 ERA, which seems not too impressive according to your logic). 2. Just because you aren't a strikeout pitcher doesn't mean you can't be an ace. Before last season, when Wang got hurt and missed most of the season, he won 19 games in each of the 2 previous seasons and was even the runner up for the CY Young award in 2006. Yet, you are calling him a 2? Are you retarded? Wang was the best starting pitcher on a playoff team, that makes you an ace. Especially when you look at his numbers. What you don't realize is that a 3.70 ERA is very good in the American League (a much harder league to pitch in than the NL). According to your logic, Johan Santana wasn't an ace in 2007 because he had a 3.33 ERA. Pitching is tougher in the AL, get it through your head. That is why the Braves were willing to give Burnett about as much money as the Yankees were because pitchers that have shown they can excel in the AL are THAT much more valuable in the NL (see CC Sabathia). 3. Which brings me to Burnett. As I said in my post, WHEN HEALTHY, the Yankees have the best rotation in baseball. Yet, you think you are so smart for pointing out Burnett's injury problems. Wow, you are so smart. You Phillies fans must have awesome reading skills because you did a good job of reading and comprehending my argument (see how stupid it is to generalize and make fun of a team's fans?). Like I said before, a pitcher that gives you an ERA in the 3.00s in the AL is considered a 1 pitcher, not a 2 in the rotation. Burnett has always had ace like tools, its his health that has been the main problem and that is why I preceded my post by saying that the Yankees rotation was the best on paper (assuming everyone is healthy). Yet, you continue to bash me for not talking about their health. 4. You say that the Yankees bullpen pales to the Phillies yet, you offer no proof or evidence. That is an excellent argument on your behalf! I wish more people like you would just make a claim and never back it up...I never even said anything about the Phillies bullpen and you are still attacking me like I insulted your team. Plus, you went that extra mile and then said that you have seen your team win a championship in the last 5 years so you are now an expert. That was a very stupid move, even for you. Never use the "I've seen my team win a championship" line against a Yankee fan. That is as bad as a Knicks fan telling a Celtics fan "I've seen more winning teams than you have." I've seen the Yankees win 4 championships in comparison to your one. I've seen the Yankees bullpen of the 90s which was stacked with guys like Mo Rivera (in his prime), Mendoza, Nelson, etc. So guess what? I've seen the bullpen of a dynasty team, I think I know what is a better bullpen according to your same logic. Plus, I love how you assume I'm a certain kind of Yankee fan that loves to see his team outspend every other team by a significant margin. If you had looked closely at what I said earlier in this thread though, you would have seen that I think the league should take some certain steps that would not help the Yankees (e.g. putting a rookie pay scale for the annual draft). Yet, you assume that I want to "buy a championship." Do you realize how foolish you look by saying things like "you yankee fans" when I didn't even say anything along the lines of what you are accusing me of? That allowed me to say some nasty things about Phillies fans in this post although I know not all Phillies fans are as ignorant and foolish as you are. I apologize for attacking you so violently in this post, but you came hard at me first for no reason whatsoever. I didn't say anything negative about the Phillies and I simply tried to make a reasoned argument about why the Yankees were the team to beat based on this off-season. However, you couldn't let it be a civilized argument, you had to resort to fan boyish arguments which clearly showed your arrogance after winning one championship. Well done. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 1:40:04 GMT -4
I'm sorry, but it's absurd to consider Joba an ace with such a small sample size.
He has talent, no doubt - but to consider him an ace at this stage of his career shows an obvious bias and weakens any other arguments you may have.
Also, if we're considering a 3.70 ERA to be ace material - that means that Gil Meche, Joe Saunders, Zack Greinke, Scott Baker, Jesse Litsch, and Jeremy Guthrie are also aces. If you think those guys are aces then you and I have a very different definition of what constitutes an "ace."
In defense of the Yankees though, Rivera is definitely the best closer in the game. And has been for the past decade+
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Post by Seattle Slough on Dec 27, 2008 13:49:13 GMT -4
Is spending over 400 million dollars on three guys, spending much more wisely? Yes those guys are good right at this moment, but baseball is a crazy sport and shit happens, guys get hurt and are never the same.
I personally wouln't have given A.J. Burnett all that money, I think that will backfire on them and be their next Pavano and get hurt. C.C. is the best guy they picked up and I feel worth the money, even though I don't feel any athlete is worth that much money.
Tex is good, but he seams to suck dick in the postseason. So instead of picking up a clutch hitter for October they got another one of those guys that will get them to October like A-rod, then they both won't be worth their money when it counts.
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