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Post by Kobe24 on Apr 22, 2009 0:36:47 GMT -4
1. God sent Jesus to die for our sins. Shows how much he loves us. Sending your own son to die for our sins. But God and Jesus are the same person, ever heard of the Holy Trinity. Its really hard to get this if you havent read the bible or know anything about it.
2. We dont know that there isnt life on other planets. I dont know much about the Universe being created from a bible stand point though.
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Post by bnabreaker on Apr 22, 2009 0:37:39 GMT -4
I have yet to hear any Christian explain how exactly they are better off as a result of their "faith" than an atheist such as myself, or for that matter, any non-Christian. I've also never heard any Christian explain how they are morally superior as a result of their "faith".
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Post by Kobe24 on Apr 22, 2009 0:43:13 GMT -4
We believe we are better off because of what we believe in...Our "faith" will get us into heaven, which is paradise. I never understood atheist though, you believe we are just here by happenstance? We dont try to be morally superior, I try not to speak about it unless someone asks, the Christians that believe they are better then you arent real Christians, alot of them out there.
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Post by Seattle Slough on Apr 22, 2009 0:53:07 GMT -4
Why would he send his own son to die for our sins? Especially if god seems to give more than one, two, three, four chances for a person to redeem himself. So, he sent his own son to die for people longer then 2000 years ago, What about all the people in the mean time? Jesus dying that long ago doesn't apparently save the sins of people of today's world, because how would that be true, people are in different sins that weren't even thought about that long ago.
To your response on their not being life on other planets, did god create those lifeforms? How would you know, unless there is another supposed book that passed through their language to our language to let us know he did?
What if there are other lifeforms on other planets? Does that disprove the bible and your god, because what if those people or lifeforms don't write they were created by god, are they liars? How do you believe in something that was written by a human, which no human has ever encountered that wrote the book with the people he is writing about. EVER.
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Post by Kobe24 on Apr 22, 2009 1:03:44 GMT -4
I just told you why he would send his own son...God will give you a chance if you repent. Jesus was sent to die for past and future sins. And a sin is a sin, the 10 Commandments still apply today, not much changes in those terms unless you get technical. I havent read every part of the bible, and like I said Im not SURE about that. And if you are this curious, you should sit down and read the bible, if anything it will make you smarter. And nothing is a SURE thing, its a BELIEF system, and I would rather believe in something rather then nothing.
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Post by bnabreaker on Apr 22, 2009 1:30:39 GMT -4
I just wanted to pose those two questions in the hopes that it would make some people think. I have no interest in getting into a discussion or debate with anyone who, no offense, isn't interested in scouring all sources and considering all angles to find truth or reality, but rather, maintaining a belief in the same stories they've been told by their parents to believe in out of the fear that they'd burn in "hell" if they don't. Because really, where could that discussion possibly go? All any devout Christian is going to do is recite scripture or repeat other things they've been told to believe.
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Post by J-Sav on Apr 22, 2009 1:31:23 GMT -4
Christians can't can't comprehend anything beyond this earth. Because if they believed in the true God, then they would understand that if God is great as myself and Christian's believe, then He is able to create worlds beyond this Earth. I believe that there is other life forms, because all of this universe, and just us? That's hard to believe. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just know that my mom, who was a devout Christian who didn't believe in other life. I said you don't thing God is capable of creating other life? She said He just didn't. So you're limiting God's power. Because a God capable of making this Earth is very capable of creating life on planets other than ours. It'll be interesting to see what some of the Christians we have in here believe about other life in the universe.
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Post by Bish on Apr 22, 2009 1:49:03 GMT -4
Christians can't can't comprehend anything beyond this earth. That is a horribly ignorant and unfair blanket statement to make. The universe is an awfully big place to be completely empty other than just us in one little insignificant corner. There's really no reason not to be open to the idea that something else might be out there. That doesn't mean that there is, but we just don't know yet. I love the speculation and discussion in that area too, just as much as I find it fascinating to hear what people think about God and religion.
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Post by Seattle Slough on Apr 22, 2009 2:09:24 GMT -4
Not going to hate one The 10 Commandments, they are good 'Values' to have, but to me that seems like a fucked up sacrifice to send your own son to die for the sins of the people he created. I'm thinking Jesus and God don't speak to one another for that specific reason,lol.
One of my main questions has always been, how come the bible is written past the time of the people actually in the bible, that they have never actually been told that story from the actually person in the bible. Jesus didn't tell the humans who wrote the bible to say that. Technically, wouldn't the bible be plagiarized or at least have some footnotes of where they got the source, how they got the source? How is all writing documented this way, except the books of religion?
I can already hear the responces that the bible is the first ever written book. But to be able to write something, you have to have a source of who told you this. God didn't just go into the mind of somebody and tell him to write this, if that was the case, why didn't he go into the mind of the people watching jesus being crucified and have them document it then, instead of wait to all those people are dead and somebody create it out of thin air.
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Post by J-Sav on Apr 22, 2009 2:20:13 GMT -4
Christians can't can't comprehend anything beyond this earth. That is a horribly ignorant and unfair blanket statement to make. The universe is an awfully big place to be completely empty other than just us in one little insignificant corner. There's really no reason not to be open to the idea that something else might be out there. That doesn't mean that there is, but we just don't know yet. I love the speculation and discussion in that area too, just as much as I find it fascinating to hear what people think about God and religion. I understand what you mean Bish. I apologize for saying it like that. But like I said, I learned that religion through my mother, and she was totally against the thought of other life forms. That always used to wonder why would you be if you believe God is capable of doing anything. It should not be out the realm of possibility.
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Post by Bish on Apr 22, 2009 4:04:37 GMT -4
Understood man. Some people certainly may believe that way, but don't think for a second that means they all do.
P.S. - I like how One-Time of all people is all of a sudden the most coherent person in this thread.
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Post by Seattle Slough on Apr 22, 2009 13:21:42 GMT -4
LOL, I'm really am not that dumb or ignorant. I just play a certain angle sometimes to come up with the most outlandish ideas looking for reactions out of people.
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Post by Jogo on Apr 22, 2009 17:39:50 GMT -4
Atheist is really easy to understand. See, nobody here over 5 years old believe in Santa because it's such an unbelievable story of one guy traveling the world in one night to distribute gifts but half the stories in bible that make as much sense as the Santa myth, are something they can base their lifes on.
And it's not just that the Santa myth can be proved wrong by staying up or as we grow up that it's really the humans that buy the gifts because that's the amazing thing about faith. You can prove it wrong 10 times that will only make people believe 10 times more. Like the story of the profet who based on the readings of the bible predicted that Christ would return to the earth on a certain day and when that didn't happen he reformulated his prediction to another day and when you would think people would stop believing him, his followers actually doubled.
Thing is Atheists don't know what's going on and they don't pretend they do. There might be a higher power and there might not. Racionally most of the higher power stories make no sense so dedicate your life to something that odds are, it's all bs doesn't make much sense either. Yes it's easier to live knowing that there's a reason for every shit we see and that it can't all end when we die. But personally I think the philosophy is simple, life is what's happening while you are worring about what will happen after life. I choose to live with what I know is real. That doesn't mean I don't follow some of the good morals of religion. But for example I don't kill because religion says you shall not kill. That's something that makes some sense whether you believe or not.
It's really hard for me to understand why so many smart people believe in different religions when religion is really a men's thing (God is supposed to be invisible so it's just what men wrote for him and what men said for him and what men did for him) and we've all seen how men can be corrupt, mean and messed up. More often than not, religion was turned into something profitable, something to control the masses and something to kill for. That's all man's work I know but if we really think about, any religion has man in it's origins.
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Post by Kobe Dominates! on Apr 22, 2009 17:56:11 GMT -4
Sounds like somebody needs to reread the dictionary under the word atheist.
This is true of agnostics not atheists.
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Post by Jogo on Apr 22, 2009 18:18:40 GMT -4
That's true under the definition if you need to follow definitions but if you had read the whole post instead of taking out a sentence you would have understood that personally I don't really see a difference between agnostics and atheists. The means might not be exactly the same but the ends are. Both end up not following a god or religion.
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