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Post by Kobe24 on Apr 22, 2009 21:26:23 GMT -4
We dont know for sure we just have faith in it, just like nothing else is SURE.
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Post by Kobe Dominates! on Apr 22, 2009 21:40:42 GMT -4
I asked this question earlier in the thread, but never got an answer. Maybe someone can answer it this time? There are several other religions around the world that say the same thing (if you don't believe, something bad will happen to you). What makes you so certain that you, your parents, and this country got it right - and the billions of people around the world who aren't Christians got it wrong? And please don't quote the bible to answer the question, as all those other religions have holy text that can be quoted to make them seem right too. [/size] [/quote] Also, Jogo is right about the definition of Atheist. [/quote] How are atheists sure that God doesn't exist? A Christian having faith in an everlasting God makes more logical sense than a "rational atheist" having faith in a universe that just appeared out of thin air.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 22:00:14 GMT -4
We dont know for sure we just have faith in it, just like nothing else is SURE. Lots of things are SURE. The computer you type on is SURE. So is the fact that the Lakers are playing basketball in the playoffs. And that we all have fun doing these sim leagues. The trees are sure, and animals are sure, and tv shows, and sports, and movies are sure. I'm going to live my life based on those things, that are for sure. Not something that may or may not be real.
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Post by Seattle Slough on Apr 22, 2009 22:08:22 GMT -4
The law decides they are illegal lol...The Bible says you should abide by the Law of the Land, but everyone should do that. Its not other people telling you something is wrong, its the actual law lol...They arent illegal, but they are bad for you, which I also said I dont do things that are wrong, and in this case for my body. Nice history lesson I guess on pot, but its still labeled as illegal... Have you ever been to a church? If not, you have nothing to base that statement on and I wont continue with this... And again those are fake Christians anyway. Ive been around true Christians, and you can just see the goodness. And who made these Laws, God? Did they just come out of no where? Talking on a cell phone while your driving is illegal, but I bet you have done it, does that mean your going to hell? Same for texting while driving. There is a basic set of laws that I do agree with, that most should, such as don't steal, don't kill, don't cheat, but the government makes way too many laws, because they feel they have to or what else would they be doing with our tax payer money. Have to justify why they are getting paid all that money. Its not a law or illegal to have an abortion, but I bet you think that is wrong. When if you were suppose to abid by the laws of the land, then nobody should being protesting in front of abortion clinics, because they are suppose to abid by the law of the land as you put it. And yes I have been to church, i'm not an ignorant prick that makes this shit up. Use to go all the time when I lived with my uncle as a freshman in high school. And they were terrible people that judged all the time, and I don't even speak with them because of how they treated me.
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Post by Kobe24 on Apr 22, 2009 22:13:27 GMT -4
We dont know for sure we just have faith in it, just like nothing else is SURE. Lots of things are SURE. The computer you type on is SURE. So is the fact that the Lakers are playing basketball in the playoffs. And that we all have fun doing these sim leagues. The trees are sure, and animals are sure, and tv shows, and sports, and movies are sure. I'm going to live my life based on those things, that are for sure. Not something that may or may not be real. I meant that how we got here and where we will go isnt sure, thats why you just have to believe in what you believe in. Didnt mean material objects smh
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Post by Kobe24 on Apr 22, 2009 22:18:48 GMT -4
The law decides they are illegal lol...The Bible says you should abide by the Law of the Land, but everyone should do that. Its not other people telling you something is wrong, its the actual law lol...They arent illegal, but they are bad for you, which I also said I dont do things that are wrong, and in this case for my body. Nice history lesson I guess on pot, but its still labeled as illegal... Have you ever been to a church? If not, you have nothing to base that statement on and I wont continue with this... And again those are fake Christians anyway. Ive been around true Christians, and you can just see the goodness. And who made these Laws, God? Did they just come out of no where? Talking on a cell phone while your driving is illegal, but I bet you have done it, does that mean your going to hell? Same for texting while driving. There is a basic set of laws that I do agree with, that most should, such as don't steal, don't kill, don't cheat, but the government makes way too many laws, because they feel they have to or what else would they be doing with our tax payer money. Have to justify why they are getting paid all that money. Its not a law or illegal to have an abortion, but I bet you think that is wrong. When if you were suppose to abid by the laws of the land, then nobody should being protesting in front of abortion clinics, because they are suppose to abid by the law of the land as you put it. And yes I have been to church, i'm not an ignorant prick that makes this shit up. Use to go all the time when I lived with my uncle as a freshman in high school. And they were terrible people that judged all the time, and I don't even speak with them because of how they treated me. God didnt make the laws we have today, and just because you sin doesnt mean you are automatically going to hell, God forgives, but you dont go out and blatantly do stuff to defy God. And I agree, the government is way to involved with our lives, and I think God did mean the basic laws of the land, which are basically the 10 Commandments. I think abortion is wrong, yes, but not everyone does, and the law on that depends on the party of the president...You are trying to pick at small things and not look at the big picture. What kind of Church was it, not all Christians/Churches are like that.
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Post by Seattle Slough on Apr 22, 2009 22:50:45 GMT -4
Something like the assembly of god or something, not positively sure. But it was of christian origin.
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Post by Jogo on Apr 22, 2009 23:12:53 GMT -4
A Christian having faith in an everlasting God makes more logical sense than a "rational atheist" having faith in a universe that just appeared out of thin air. Ok so science doesn't explain the appearence of the first living cell that evolved. I'll give you that. Could have been God or could have been not. Nodoby knows yet. But what about everything else that has been contradicted over time? Because religion as we know it isn't just about the origin of life or genesis. So lets talk about what we do know. It's a fact that some of the things we do know go against what the church believed in. That sure points one way which leads atheists to believe that religion probably doesn't have the answer to what we don't know at this moment. That's not just blind faith. And even the Genesis that is an important foundation of religion. Evolution contradicts a literalistic interpretation of Genesis. And while modern religion has stated that biblical literalism is not mandatory doesn't that sound like an adjustment to survive? Like ok so we were wrong with some stuff but there are still unknown things that give breathing room for religion to exist. That's what religion basically feeds from, the unknown. What if in 1000 years a ton more discoveries prove more religious foundations wrong? Will religions die? Only rational religion or whatever you wanna call it. Religions will never die because people need to believe that there is something more. That this isn't just it. Even if proved wrong 10 times, people will say ok I can't explain it but I have faith and that's all I need. Sure, I'm not against that, whatever helps us humans get through the day. Like I said many times, religion has good morals and its origins are also about the education of people and the order of the masses. There's nothing wrong with that. Of course men have also been able to twist all that and use religion over time for personal gain or for their personal agendas. Religion has been responsible for some good things but it also has been the justification for some of the worst things we've historically seen and that's the part I can't live with so well. And we don't even have to go back that much. We live in a world where religion is probably the biggest political weapon. It sure looks stupid for us westerns the things fundamentalist islamics do out of belief in a paridise with 70 virgins but how will some of the things Roman Catholicism still defends (like the prohibition of condoms use or that homosexuality is a disease) will look to the future generations?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 23:38:47 GMT -4
Lots of things are SURE. The computer you type on is SURE. So is the fact that the Lakers are playing basketball in the playoffs. And that we all have fun doing these sim leagues. The trees are sure, and animals are sure, and tv shows, and sports, and movies are sure. I'm going to live my life based on those things, that are for sure. Not something that may or may not be real. I meant that how we got here and where we will go isnt sure, thats why you just have to believe in what you believe in. Didnt mean material objects smh If it isn't sure and can't be sure, why guess?
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Post by bnabreaker on Apr 22, 2009 23:58:28 GMT -4
I find it funny that Christians unquestionably accept every scientific advancement and law and theory that has ever come about...EXCEPT the ones that directly contradict the Bible. Then, all of a sudden, they develop the confidence to question a century of in depth scientific study. How does that not sound any alarms in your heads? How have you convinced yourself that thinking that a giant invisible man in the sky magically poofing everything into existence out of nothing a mere 6,000 years ago is a reasonable and legitimate viewpoint? What lengths must you contort yourself to in order to convince yourselves of these things? I mean, believe it if you want, I'm not trying to be an asshole here, I'm just saying, where is the disconnect there? So many otherwise intelligent and reasonable and open minded and realistic people just revert back to what they were as a child when it comes to discussing issues of religion.
Newsflash guys, just because you hide your eyes from evidence doesn't mean it's not there. I think some Christians would openly mock and deny any scientific principle if a passage in their 2,000 year old holy book said something different. Why? Not because it's logical, but because they're trained to out of the threat that they'll burn for all eternity if they don't "have faith". And as I said above, you're free to believe whatever you like. Far be it from me to tell you what you should believe. You can believe that the Mighty Morphing Power Rangers shat the world into existence for all I care, but I'm just saying, if you do, don't expect people to consider your belief in biblical creation to be a valid and respectable viewpoint worthy of discussion among sound science. I'll tell you one thing, it'd be a lot more easy to respect if people would just come out and admit that they believe in creation because they believe they're supposed to, instead of pretending like it's a legitimate theory that should be taken seriously.
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Post by bnabreaker on Apr 23, 2009 0:02:21 GMT -4
It's as basic as that Stork. Why would a loving God send a billion people to hell, just because of where they lived, and how they were raised. I just can't see that. Are you referring to the same "loving God" who ordered the destruction of countless men, women, and children throughout the Bible? Just saying, if you're going to go by scripture, then the whole loving God thing is kind of a stretch.
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Post by Kobe Dominates! on Apr 23, 2009 0:19:43 GMT -4
I'm speaking more of the matter that comes out of thin air in the most popular theory of the creation of the universe (that I am aware of) at time 0.0000001 of the Big Bang.
Some of the stuff we know now goes against what the top scientific minds of the past believed as well. Would it be fair to write off all science because scientists of the past had it wrong?
I'm not religious. I believe in a creator. Evolution has never been a mental hurdle that I had to jump over in order to believe. Society in general doesn't react well to change. This is true of most religions as well. The benefit of science is that it welcomes and encourages change provided that it can be proven true so that it will always be ahead of the curve. I would bet most religious people who have a problem with the theory of evolution have a very poor understanding of what Darwin's theory actually says and means. I don't see any way religion will die out unless someone is capable of disproving the existence of God and that doesn't mean disproving a line of a book written by man.
This is the stuff that irritates me. How can you make blanket statements about how and why people believe when the answer is different for every person? I could just as easily generalize that atheist like One Time only don't believe in God because his "religious" family members treated him like garbage. And as a defense mechanism he decided they were bad people because they were religious. Hey, whatever it takes to get through the day. There's nothing wrong with that.
Nazi Eugenics, biological weapons, chemical weapons and nuclear bombs all brought to you by the wonderful world of science. You can't dismiss an entire segment of society due to role it played in the ugly side of history.
Homosexuality was first characterized as a mental disorder by men of science as well as religion. Science isn't the rubber that gets to pass off all its mistakes onto religion
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Post by Kobe Dominates! on Apr 23, 2009 0:29:43 GMT -4
I find it funny that Christians unquestionably accept every scientific advancement and law and theory that has ever come about...EXCEPT the ones that directly contradict the Bible. Then, all of a sudden, they develop the confidence to question a century of in depth scientific study. How does that not sound any alarms in your heads? How have you convinced yourself that thinking that a giant invisible man in the sky magically poofing everything into existence out of nothing a mere 6,000 years ago is a reasonable and legitimate viewpoint? What lengths must you contort yourself to in order to convince yourselves of these things? I mean, believe it if you want, I'm not trying to be an asshole here, I'm just saying, where is the disconnect there? So many otherwise intelligent and reasonable and open minded and realistic people just revert back to what they were as a child when it comes to discussing issues of religion. Newsflash guys, just because you hide your eyes from evidence doesn't mean it's not there. I think some Christians would openly mock and deny any scientific principle if a passage in their 2,000 year old holy book said something different. Why? Not because it's logical, but because they're trained to out of the threat that they'll burn for all eternity if they don't "have faith". And as I said above, you're free to believe whatever you like. Far be it from me to tell you what you should believe. You can believe that the Mighty Morphing Power Rangers shat the world into existence for all I care, but I'm just saying, if you do, don't expect people to consider your belief in biblical creation to be a valid and respectable viewpoint worthy of discussion among sound science. I'll tell you one thing, it'd be a lot more easy to respect if people would just come out and admit that they believe in creation because they believe they're supposed to, instead of pretending like it's a legitimate theory that should be taken seriously. How do you believe the universe was created?
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Post by Seattle Slough on Apr 23, 2009 2:34:30 GMT -4
"This is the stuff that irritates me. How can you make blanket statements about how and why people believe when the answer is different for every person? I could just as easily generalize that atheist like One Time only don't believe in God because his "religious" family members treated him like garbage. And as a defense mechanism he decided they were bad people because they were religious. Hey, whatever it takes to get through the day. There's nothing wrong with that. "
Um, the reason I don't believe in it is because I am a factual person and I can't fathom any of it, especially a book written by men that none of the men ever met any of the people in the book. I don't believe in it because I had relatives that were bad people. I was making a point that I think a lot of people are hypocrites because they go to church and act all friendly, then go home and talk shit about the people. My point was based upon that I think it is a fake friendly society for the most part. I have never really believed in a god or that we were created by a creator and it started with Adam and Eve. To me its just a well documented fable passed through multiple languages that was intepreted by men.
If anything, religion actually holds down women in the society. And that is the case for all religions, yes even christianity.
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Post by J-Sav on Apr 23, 2009 11:56:18 GMT -4
It's as basic as that Stork. Why would a loving God send a billion people to hell, just because of where they lived, and how they were raised. I just can't see that. Are you referring to the same "loving God" who ordered the destruction of countless men, women, and children throughout the Bible? Just saying, if you're going to go by scripture, then the whole loving God thing is kind of a stretch. Exactly. But I do wholeheartly believe in God. But not the Christian God. Deism says it is rationality and reason that leads to God. To the Deist, the evidence is the creation and the idea of what brought about the evidence is the Creator. There is absolutely nothing known to man that created itself. For example, if someone shows us a computer, and tells us that all the individual parts that make up the computer just came about by chance, that they somehow just formed into a perfectly working computer system all by themselves, we would be foolish to believe that person. Reason, if we use it, won't let us believe a statement like that. Likewise, if someone tells us the ever growing creation and its perfect order "happened" by pure chance, we are under no obligation to believe them. From our own experience we know everything created has a creator. Why then should the creation itself be different? There is, however, one quality the creation has that makes leaving its existence to chance even more remote. That quality is motion. Deism teaches that the Creator is knowable and discoverable through the creation itself. It is very understandable how people could be turned off by man-made religions and superstitions with their bombings and financial beg-a-thons, and confuse artificial or revealed religion with God. Many things were not knowable in the past that are knowable today. At one time Europeans believed it was impossible to know what was on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean: but they were wrong. As we learn more about the sciences, we are learning more about the Power that put those principles in place.
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